Jul 16, 2013 at 6:41 pm #1305480
Bit of a vague question but can anyone tell me what version of Pertex would m90 be comparable too (close enough) when it comes to water/wind resistance and durability.
StephenJul 16, 2013 at 8:05 pm #2006930
Of the fabrics available from Pertex, Quantum N-090 is the closest to M90.Jul 16, 2013 at 8:22 pm #2006938
Which version of m90? V2 and v3 are pretty different
-TimJul 16, 2013 at 9:13 pm #2006956
Very good point!
I gave my above comparison based on the 3/3/11 variant I tested from the Thru-Hiker (V?). After reading your post I see that I also tested another variant from the same source on 11/5/12 (V?). For the second M90 test, the air permeability doubled and the HH went down. This 11/5/12 version would be more similar to Pertex Equilibrium.
Did TH change the fabric and use the same name again after 11/5/12?
Recently I started fingerprinting anything I test by micrographing the sample at a wide range of different FOVs and storing the micrographs along with the test results. The fingerprint now clearly lets me know if two fabrics are the same regardless of what they are called and from whom they are sourced.Jul 16, 2013 at 10:35 pm #2006980
@m-lLocale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
It seems like pertex is more durable, scratch resistant etc. and M90 is softer, but has a wet/ rubbery feel. Thats just my perception.Jul 16, 2013 at 10:50 pm #2006983
Thru-hiker sells both V2 and V3 currently depending on color. V2 is the highly water resistant less air perm stuff and v3 is much more air perm with less water resistance. I like both knowing their qualities and choosing them for different jobs.
Impetus has replaced both Pertex and momentum for me in ~1oz fabrics.
-TimJul 16, 2013 at 11:16 pm #2006986
Sorry to take this thread off track – Tim how does Impetus compare to both m90 and pertex quantum (say the variety that TH and Zpacks stock) in terms of DWR, air permeability, hand?Jul 17, 2013 at 5:02 am #2007009
Impetus 1.0 (Black/Grey IM1) has a smooth comfortable face like m90V2 and higher breathability like m90V3 (these are my favorite features for breathable sleeping quilt fabrics)
Impetus 1.1 (Aspen Green IM2) has a light silicone coating for high weather resistance and low air permiability like m90V2 but with a much slicker face making it more slippery which sheds water even better.
I have no use for the Impetus 1.2 (Sedona sage) its not breathable and waterproof to a low degree so not good for quilts or stuff sacks basically all I make.
-TimJul 17, 2013 at 6:53 am #2007027
Thanks all for the replies, its M90v2 (blue)
StephenJul 17, 2013 at 6:59 am #2007029
Chad “Stick” PoindexterParticipant
@stickLocale: Wet & Humid Southeast....
Tim, would you mind clarifying which colors are v2 & which are v3? I notice on the TH site that in the description for M90 MR he adds a note that says: "M90v2 fabric is more water resistant but less breathable than M90v3 fabric." But I am still not sure which is which…
Also, off subject a bit, but has anyone tried the Argon fabric that Dutch is selling?Jul 17, 2013 at 7:19 am #2007033
This is part of a correpsonde I had with Ben Smith last year.
The Blue fabric on your parka is M90v2, which is still available for Blue and Tan. The Red, Yellow, and Forest Green that I have are M90v3 – slightly stiffer, but more breathable.Jul 17, 2013 at 7:23 am #2007034
Chad, use the pull down it specifies which is what.
-TimJul 17, 2013 at 7:24 am #2007035
Chad, drop down box for color selection is where either v2 or v3 lives next to the color name.
Obsoleted in 16 seconds…Jul 17, 2013 at 7:26 am #2007037
Chad “Stick” PoindexterParticipant
@stickLocale: Wet & Humid Southeast....
Doh… so simple… :) Sorry guys…Jul 17, 2013 at 7:33 am #2007038
I hadn't heard of the dutch place. They have some interesting hardware. Most of it have no more idea what to with than extra forks at dinner.Jul 17, 2013 at 8:27 am #2007056
Dutch is a hammockforums vendor so his hardware is designed to be used in a hammock kit. Some of the tarp hardware could be used by ground sleeping tarp users too. He has a keen eye for design.
-TimJul 22, 2013 at 11:42 am #2008393
– – If you read this Tim, maybe skip to the next post. It isn't as long as this one…
I would like to use a shell with equal or greater breathability than liner. I figure Nobul-something for the liner and a 1.1 ounce or so for the shell. [edit: I found a post by you that Nubul is pretty darn breathable and it seems I will be hard pressed to find a shell more breathable..]
The M50 seems to be less breathable than either version of M90. So, the 1.1-class…
However, this Impetus seems to be a lighter material that is similar in breathability to M90… It is more breathable than M50, anyway ?
You say Argon is inbound. Is that inbound as a sample or inbound for use and you have already sampled it? If sampled, where does it fit in the M50-M90/Impetus spectrum.. ?
Also, I have been hunting interesting colors. This is secondary to the items above, really. Red, blue, yellow, gray, brown seem to be it… Z-pack has green Quantum GL. Any idea on sage green or cayenne or some fancy color MHW or NF manage ?
Either way, thanks for the time. I have looked through threads with numbers. I am just interested in relative breat… how much air can be sucked through the materials. The other threads didn't have much on these types of fabrics anyway. More coated or stuff for windshirts.
– – I found your post comparing M50 to Nubul/?D/etc. (it helps) that starts:
more breathable (than anything i've seen)
softest feel against skin of any fabric i've seen, especiialy in this weight class…Jul 22, 2013 at 12:24 pm #2008409
Or, to weed out the extra stuff I wrote that takes time to read…
It seems things line up like this for breathability
Impetus 1.0 slots in about M90 v3 ?
Impetus 1.1 slots in about M90 v2 ?
Argone might go where ?
Breeze resistance is basically turning the list upside down: M50 > M90 v2, M90 v3, etc.Jul 22, 2013 at 12:54 pm #2008421
The impetus 1.0 is very similar in breathability to m90 v3. The texture is a little smoother but I would say they are pretty interchangeable.
Argon sample is headed my way.
-TimJul 22, 2013 at 4:16 pm #2008486
I recently used Argon on a quilt for someone at Hammockforums. My thoughts thus far – very breathable, DWR isn't great(doesnt really need to be in a hammock I suppose) and downproofness is still up in the air.. I suspect it won't be great considering the breathability, plus being totally downproof at these weights is difficult unless that is your number one goal. Overall, seems like a decent fabric for the price and weight though.
P.S – Tanner, I would put Argon near Nobull on breathability. This is via a very scientific breath test so keep that in mind. : )
RyanJul 22, 2013 at 5:40 pm #2008510
You said in part, "…I am just interested in relative breat… how much air can be sucked through the materials."
What application(s) are you designing for where abrasion resistance, HH, and DWR robustness are not also factors in your decision process?Jul 22, 2013 at 6:56 pm #2008538
I use the 'lamprey' test, myself :^)
I was just looking for a relative test so more/less is good enough.
Thanks for the note.Jul 22, 2013 at 7:04 pm #2008541
I am looking at these for shell or liner for a quilt.
I sleep in a tent. The tent doesn't get much air flow.
My thought was to have more permeable material on top/shell and less breathable for the liner. May not matter much but I figured it couldn't hurt. For this reason, relative results were good enough.
This would be a down quilt I will not intentionally use around freezing.
PS – For instance, I figure it would be a best practice to not use the less permeable M50 as a shell with more permeable Nobul liner. Maybe M50 as both shell and liner while Nobul would be a better match with M90 shell. etc.
It is likely I am just thinking too much.
In any case, I have lumped both Nobul products together. This is probably not a correct thing. I understand v2 is more down resistant so I take it to be less breathable. Seems to be a trend of inverse relationship.. maybe.
I am probably better off to just worry about performance with down then weight and then cost.
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