average trad.pack:5.6lb/71liters

I too see nothing but heavy packs and excessive gear. Over the years I personally have discovered two things – I don't need most of the gear and I am too old to carry 70 lbs. I have naturally gravitated to UL packing just to be able to continue in comfort. If I was young and macho I would still be carrying the 70 lb pack (yes, its a guy thing). I am curious about the relationship between age and UL backpacking. Is UL backpacking evenly distributed by age bracket or ????

Well…the only thing I can say about age is: if you want to keep backpacking, often going light is the only way-especially if you want to do miles. The guy who got me into going light is Hoosierdaddy, whose Dr told him to quit backpacking. His week pack looks like a 1/2 day pack. He had to do that to keep going. For me, after I wrecked my back 3 years ago it became a necessity to lower my pack weight. It was either that or become addicted to painkillers.

Though I have noticed that the younger males I see on the trail who are serious about hiking seem to have lower pack weights out here in Washington. It may be because they go online, or have been fascinated by endurance races, etc. That is big out here-and light packs are needed for that. The overnight crowd seems to be getting lighter at least for the younger men.

One thing I am a bit obsessed with is when new female hikers join our hiking group. We had one lady join us a couple months ago. She had been outfitted at REI. She took pretty much EVERYTHING back after one trip and got new gear. Our hiking group, when it started in 2002 was all old school packers. Pretty much the hardcore members are all light packers now. We might not be all UL, but everyone has cut back in what they carry (and the miles went up!).

So I guess my rambling theory is that once exposed to going light, if a person is serious about hiking, they will watch and learn – fast :-)

My hiking experience is somewhat different, I think.

While I only started backpacking 3 years ago, I had been traveling before that, and knew about the joys of traveling light, as well as outdoors techniques such as layering and wearing synthetics, etc. Much of the knowledge was transferrable between the two.

But when traveling, one is really doing short urban "hikes" between train stations and hostels, etc. for the most part — so "light enough" is actually and truly good enough. When I outfitted myself with this mentality for my first ever "real" hike, I made compromises — buying "pretty light" (but not UL) gear for pretty good prices. My base and total pack weight for my first trip (a desert overnight) was 24 lbs and 40 lbs respectively. Not bad for a brand spanking new beginner.

But after just two trips, I swapped out pretty much everything and got all UL gear instead — dropping base weight by more than half. I was "UL" by my third trip, and haven't looked back. Never bought into that 'macho' mentality. :)

I'm 35. When I returned to hiking after a long hiatus, I never even considered carrying what I carried as a scout and the years after leaving the BSA. I do have a personal mantra that when I do something, I try to do it right. For me, carrying a dozen pounds instead of fifty pounds was simply logical. Carrying a heavy pack was just about all I disliked about hiking in my formative years and, thankfully, its now easy enough to correct.

Regarding price, this has been thoroughly hashed over on this forum (and many others). With a few exceptions, must UL and SUL gear is priced equivalently…or less…than traditional gear. Referencing the section hiker in my earlier post- he was hauling a Kelty Redcloud which carries an MSRP of $185. That price puts a lot of options on the table.

My journey to light was not so much age, as knowledge and income. Going light is not necessarily expensive, but only recently have I had the income to iterate (buy,sell,buy) gear to gain incrementally lower weights.
Judging by what I see on the trail here in Japan, UL just has not caught on, in any age group. Last hike, my GFs Montbell Versalite 50 actually drew a small crowd of trad-packers asking about its weight, volume, etc.. We talked to them for a few minutes and learned they just did the same 3-day course we did, with almost twice the weight per person. Another guy I saw on the trail must have had 70lbs of gear, and he was plodding along step by step. He actually passed me every time I stopped for a scenery break; slow and steady, never stopping, with a pace he became adjusted to over decades, no doubt.

There is a real untapped market here in Japan; wish I could capitalize on it! The business plan is that people will pay for a reduction in suffering.

MB makes excellent UL bags and clothing — but their packs are unimpressive and their UL tents are rather conservative! Why don't you arrange with GoLite, Fanatic Fringe, HS, MLD, SMD, ULA, ZPacks, etc. to be their agent in Japan and import top notch UL packs and tents? If the owners think they are too small and won't bother — entice them with Japanese style margins! :)

Jason said: "And face it, there's no major retailer where you can walk in and get outfitted with all UL gear."
..and I have not seen anyplace in the US where you can do that. But here in Japan, there is one shop, ODBox, near Ebisu, Tokyo, where you can walk in wearing underwear and flip-flops, and walk out with all your UL gear and clothing. I was quite amazed the first time I went there. I think I got a little to excited..

Ill post some pics of the shelves after my next visit. Just as an example of what is different, they have a few cottage alcohol stoves such as the Mini-Bull and its variants, and some TrailDesigns products, and a few alcohol stoves I've never heard of.
Along one wall you can get your Integral Designs eVENT jacket, and other clothing, another wall your trail runners, and yet another wall the tarp tents, Hennessy Hammocks, and other light single wall tents, second floor choose a light frameless pack, maybe from Golite, to put it all in.

Up near the register, behind a four walled acrylic case, resting at a 45' angle, is a… holy of holies.. the long handled BackpackingLight titanium spoon, in all of its glory.
But, brother, it aint cheap, as you can imagine. Bring a pimp-roll of $100 bills.

I wonder if REI, or other retailers could have a "light corner", like some retailers have an "outlet corner"? Or, maybe BPL has a distant plan for a bricks and mortar version of its gear shop?! Dr. Ryan?

I work in IT, and the Japanese are obsessed with the size and efficiency of their personal computers. 7 years ago when we were all buying big beige Dell towers with CRT monitors, the Japanese were creating these microdesktops with lcd displays that cost $4 000. Nobody could figure out why and nobody believed the reason: they simply did not have the space in their apartments to fit a computer tower.

I'm surprised that the Japanese mentality (well according to the stereotype anyway) of frugality and minimalism hasn't been applied to outdoor pursuits. Just look at how well Japanese brands deliver "not a gram more than is necessary" — Honda, Snow Peak, Montbell, Sony, etc. I always think of them as being the opposite of North American excess — it's surprising to hear that they backpack with overdesigned overbulked overweight stuff that they don't need! (These are the ramblings of someone who's seriously ignorant of Japanese culture, mind)

My question is… given their relatively slight build (sumos excepted) — how the heck do they lug around 70 lbs??? Or maybe it's just me…

The Canadian analog to REI is MEC. The MEC gear list is interesting because an UL base load could contain every item except the "extras":

http://www.mec.ca/Main/content_text.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396038675&CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673220299&bmUID=1180635446733

An experienced hiker would probably leave out the gaitors and some of the redundant clothing, of course. But a novice who'd never set food in a forest could satisfy every "requirement" with a base load of probably 10-12 lbs.

What's interesting is that if you went into MEC with that list, you'd come out with 30-40 lbs of gear. Walk into ProliteGear and you'd come out with 10 — and more money in your wallet!

Consumption is a religion for North Americans, and if it's not consumable via "mainstream" channels I think our culture is hesitant to trust it. If it's hanging on a rack and a teenager will explain it to us, it's somehow legitimized. But if we can't get in our car and go buy it, we (as a culture) don't believe it's worth worshipping.

"My question is… given their relatively slight build (sumos excepted) — how the heck do they lug around 70 lbs??? Or maybe it's just me…"

In point of fact the Japanese have the same average height as the French,so despite the general perceptions in the West they're not that small. I'm 180 cm and any time I was on a train going to work there'd be a few locals in my carriage taller than me – and at least one of those would be a woman.

The thing in Japan is that hiking is largely a retirement activity (interestingly, predominately female) so people take it up late in life and therefore rely on the guidance they receive in gear stores as to what is appropriate to carry. Allied to this is the Japanese veneration of "experts" so they're inclined to follow exactly what they're told by the salesman is appropriate attire, as well as conforming to what the group ordains (because it's nearly always a group activity, not solo). So if the group is wearing "classic" stitched down leather boots, then that's what you wear. But as in Australia, the more experienced hikers are UL and often carry tiny packs. The scary thing is that although lots of the ordinary hikers carry fairly big packs (40+ litres) they're nearly always staying in huts so aren't carrying a tent, sleeping bag or cooking gear – so what's in their packs? Easy – snacks (lots), pajamas (for the hut), makeup (well, the women in any case), several changes of clothes (it really is bit of a fashion parade up in the Alps) and an astonishing array of other stuff that someone has convinced them is essential.

And then whenever I was starting to feel a little superior or snide some 75 year old carrying the above gear would zoom past me up a vertical hill … truly.

While it is partly true that the Japanese carry heavy packs for camping you also have to remember that hiking in Japan is based on the European model of hiking from lodge to lodge. Quite a few mountain areas specifically prohibit camping. By far the vast majority of Japanese hikers stay in mountain lodges and don't carry any camping gear at all. It is a different way of thinking UL. If you look at the gear the hut hikers carry some of it gets extraordinarily light. I once met a man on a five day walk along the Kurobe-Goro trail in the North Alps who carried a tiny daysack with string shoulder straps. Inside he carried a tiny National headlight, a thin sweater, some emergency food consisting of a rice ball and an orange, a water bottle, an umbrella (which he used as his emergency shelter), a pair of fleece gloves, and a portable cigarette ashtray. He wore his Gore-tex rain jacket most of the time. He was 76 years old and walked far faster than I did. People like that are fairly common.

You also have to remember that so far the UL movement has been something growing in the English spoken world. Sites like BPL and books like Jardine's just aren't read that much by non-English speakers and so the word takes quite a bit more time to spread. For instance the Japanese have by far outdistanced the West in terms of cell phone technology, and yet very few Westerners really know what is available here, and this is because of the difference in languages… English speakers just don't in general hear about what is going on here. Companies like GoLite and Granite Gear are making inroads here though. The last few issues of the main hiking magazine in Japan, Yama to Keikoku, featured a lot of UL gear.

Aside from general speculation on trad. bp'ing weights…I recommend you check out the translation of the Japanese blog I posted earlier in the thread.

Very cool. Give it a look.

Wow, very insightful. Thanks for the posts about Japanese hiking styles and practices!

Japanese, North Americans, and all other humans fundamentally have two emotions: love and fear. All the other emotions have either one of them at its roots. You can think of them like postive and negative energy.

Those poor souls with the traditional burdens are in the negative realm. A world of fear. They are scared that their knives are not large enough to slay a grizzly, their shelters will not protect them from a tsunami or asteroid, and while they're sleeping maybe their bag is not heavy enough to maintain themselves within the Earth's gravitation pull. I know them because I was in their camp.

However, I escaped the grasp of fear. There was hope. A beam of light. Positive energy. The knifeless, tarped, and quilted are few, but this band of brothers and sisters are fearless because they choose to live with love in their backpacks.

I love making my gear lighter!

Ben, actually I just contacted a cottage pack manufacturer who must remain nameless about representing his gear in Japan. I do have the time and energy to promote and advocate UL gear and companies here, and I would like to do so.
Miguel, your story of the old guy carrying a light and an orange (etc.) in his little pack is quite true. That type go from hut to hut, and the burdoned packers carry rather heavy tents and packs. The emerging market here is somewhere inbetween; or maybe with both.

Brett:

If you need any references, you know where to find us. You're a pimp who knows his business. :)

Best of luck, and let us know how it works out!

George Matthews wrote: "Japanese, North Americans, and all other humans fundamentally have two emotions: love and fear… You can think of them like postive and negative energy".

Hmmm… I thought the two basic human emotions were greed and fear! They are the two forces that drive the ups and downs of Wall Street. Not much love there. :)

Hi Ben

You're right for Wall St, greed and fear seem to be the drivers of our decisions. However, for backpacking, maybe joy versus doubt would be less corny terms than my earlier suggestion.

Lighter gear adds joy and that's enough for me to go with it, but for others the doubt about comfort and safety prevents them from easing their burdens. To me this is living with a positive prospective versus a negative one. It is our choice to make.