Jun 28, 2013 at 1:14 pm #1304732
Not sure if this is the right forum. I was digging through my storage And came across the stash of Epic Malibu 1.7oz I had bought around seven or eight years ago. I had originally planned on doing a production run of down and synthetic quilts for a startup that never got off the ground. I have no use for the stuff now, beyond a windshirt or two I want to sew.
Anyway, I wanted to offer it up here to gauge interest in purchasing it from me.
I have very limited quantities of five colors. A deep red, a royal blue, a navy blue, a dusky Grey, and a dark blue.
I cannot remember for the life of me what I paid, nor what its going rate was, but I was thinking of letting it go at $12/yard shipped.
If anyone is interested, please respond here and with enough response I will take photos of the colors, find out the exact yardage I have, and post to the gear swap forum. Please note that I have extremely limited amounts of this fabric.
Thanks!Jun 28, 2013 at 1:22 pm #2000574
Jim W.BPL Member
I would be interested in enough for a bivy/overbag top- so 3 yards. Red sounds good.
JimJun 28, 2013 at 3:56 pm #2000627
Richard NisleyBPL Member
@richard295Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Please email me and arrange to send me a scrap of at least 1' x 1' to hydrostatic head test. If it is similar to the 15,000 pa level of the sample that Roger Caffin tested for Samuel C. Farrington a few years back, I would like to purchase at least 10 yds. of the dusky grey.Jul 3, 2013 at 8:25 pm #2002317
Richard NisleyBPL Member
@richard295Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Nathan Meyerson mailed me a small sample of fabric, described as Epic Malibu, via first class postage on July 1, 2013 and I received it July 3, 2013. My summary tests results are as follows:
To put the tested fabric’s hydrostatic head (HH) in perspective:
-The average “Westmark Ultrasil (30D Ripstop) – US Made 30D Ripstop Silicone Double Coated” I tested in 2013 averaged 703mm H2O. This is up from the average I tested in 2011 of 492 mm H2O.
– The average “Westmark Skylite (30D Ripstop) – US Made 30D Ripstop Silicone & PU mixture Double Coated” I tested in 2013 averaged 1019mm H2O. This is up from the average I tested in 2011 of 562 mm H2O.
2. Picture of Sample
3. Micrograph showing the double ripstop weave pattern
4. Micrograph showing positive indication of the sample being a Nextec Epic process fabric. The Field of View (FOV) is the horizontal dimension size which is 1.4mm. Note the silicone coating added after the fiber was weaved but not filling all of the pores.
5. Micrograph showing the pore dimensions which account for the air permeability. The FOV is 600µm; a yellow filter was used to show the normally transparent silicone in the interstice area. In contrast to this fabric the pores in eVent average .5 µm to 1 µm. So eVent pores diameters would be approximately 1/600 to 1/1200 the FOV.
Jul 4, 2013 at 2:43 am #2002359
Richard, I appreciate your thorough tests of the fabric sample. Somewhere on these forums, I read years ago that Black Diamond responded to a query about Epic used in their single wall tents as around 800mm HH.
So although this doesn't meet your 15,000 pa requirements, it seems like your tests confirm for me that this stuff is the real deal.
Thanks again for your time and efforts!Jul 4, 2013 at 9:56 pm #2002596
Sam FarringtonBPL Member
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
The Epic Malibu I sent to Roger Caffin was, I believe, the same material formerly used by Black Diamond for tents. It is a milky yellow and appears identical to the tent material. It is a ripstop polyester, not a nylon, and does not sag under the conditions that silnylon sags. Yet it has a high bias stretch.
Roger's comments were as follows:
"Two yellow EPIC Malibu fabrics, both seemed to breathe slightly as expected.
Dry at 10 kPa, but around 15 kPa the surface suddenly erupted with
drops of water everywhere. Increasing the pressure beyond this simply
increased the flow everywhere. This is normal for EPIC. The big
problem is when the fabric gets slightly dirty: the surface tension
effect then dies."
15 kPa is around 1500mm HH, which isn't bad; however, unlike many silnylons that just leak a little after a few drops appear, the Malibu completely wets out and becomes useless as a protective water barrier when it fails.
For clothing or sleepwear, as opposed to shelters, the material is much more likely to become contaminated by oils and fail sooner for that reason. It also may be that the material is more water resistant when suspended under tension on a canopy, as opposed to wrinkling on a garment. If I had a choice of this material and a high quality DWR for a shell material, I'd go for the latter due to the lighter weight and greater vapor permeability. Tried a couple Epic treated pullovers from Wild Things and found they did not breathe well, and wetted out in severe rain above treeline in the Presidential range. Don't think this material was Malibu.
For tents, however, the Malibu may have some value. It obviously has to be used in conditions where it can be kept clean. I've still not decided whether to try it on the next tent. Cuben is much lighter, but due to the lack of elasticity and weakness at sewn seams, more difficult to work with. The Malibu I have came partly from OwareUSA and partly from Thru-Hiker. It was the second generation material used by BD, with a slightly shiny surface on one side due to calendering. (Also had some first generation material from OWF that is not calendered.) The 2d gen material weighs between 1.8 and 1.9 oz/sq/yd, not the 1.7 oz often given for Malibu.
I tested this material in a plastic embroidery loop over a weighted pail on an outside deck a couple years ago for over a month during a very rainy fall. After several weeks, it did finally wet out after over 12 hours of hard rain, but did not allow much water to collect in the pail. Also tested it later with a garden hose nozzle pushed against it on high, and water did not penetrate it.
In a more recent test Roger did on another fabric, it tested at 15 kPa initially, but when he repeated the test, it leaked at much lower pressure. This might happen with the Malibu also if subjected to repeated testing. I plan to get a tester going this year, and have toyed with the idea of just leaving the pressure at around 1500mm HH for a long period, rather than just keeping raising it till failure.
Lastly, there is some question about what Epic Malibu is. Ordered some more recently from OWF, and it did not resemble the yellow in weave or texture. It may be that the term is being used for a variety of different materials with the Epic treatment.
Hope this is helpful.Jul 6, 2013 at 4:45 pm #2003140
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