Berghaus 110 gram waterproof smock

Seems not too long ago 7 and 10D stuff was only being used on quilt interiors b/c of fragility. I wouldn't want to see this thing after a 100 yd bushwhack through brambles. I bet it wouldn't be pretty.

UL rain jackets is one area u want a no questions asked unlimited warranty

There enough stories of delamination with those here that to but otherwise is a bit of a cr@pshoot

It might not be the most durable jacket in the world, but that doesn't mean it isn't a really good jacket. Lots of folks (like me) use Propore, even though it is ridiculously fragile. We just use something else when we go bushwhacking. A good warranty makes sense, though; you never know when the thing will delaminate (without any wear or tear). Then there is the issue of breathability as well as cost. All in all it looks like a very good jacket, but I really don't know if it compares with other jackets because I have yet to see a good chart that compares jackets and windshirts.

"I wouldn't want to see this thing after a 100 yd bushwhack through brambles. I bet it wouldn't be pretty."

I wear a nylon button up over my dri ducks rain jacket when doing off trail trips. It allows me to carry the lightest outerwear through the toughest brush.

Wouldn't you only be wearing it if it were raining? Doesn't wearing something over it defeat the point?

"There enough stories of delamination with those here that to but otherwise is a bit of a cr@pshoot"

I've had a couple of gore-tex jackets delaminate, but does PU?

"I've had a couple of gore-tex jackets delaminate, but does PU?"

I have had 2 backpacks, rain pants, rain jacket, and 2 stuff sacks with PU coating delaminate, or disintegrate. Most of this is due to the fact that PU coatings are effected by moisture and will eventually degrad, delaminate, or turn sticky. Most PU coatings will fail within 10 years even if the item has had little to no use during most of that time.

In contrast I have a Gortex rain jacket and rain pant that are still waterproof and have not delaminated even though the DWR on them has failed. I also have an older Marmot ran jacket and pants that are still good.

For Gortex and Event DWR failure is the most likely thing to fail. Delaminating of these fabrics delamination is a very rare occurrence.

"I've had a couple of gore-tex jackets delaminate, but does PU?"

The gore tex jackets would be covered by their warranty at least. What were you doing with the jackets and how old were they?

> UL rain jackets is one area u want a no questions asked unlimited warranty

But you have to be prepared to pay the weight penalty. If you are track walking or above the tree line then maybe it works. I haven't torn my UL silnylon poncho yet, and that has been through scrub.

Cheers

"Wouldn't you only be wearing it if it were raining? Doesn't wearing something over it defeat the point?"

I carry the dead weight of a wet overshirt as a necessary sacrifice. If I am only expecting occasional rain, it's worth it because I can carry a super light rain jacket (even a dri-ducks) in any kind of rough bushwhacking situation.

If I'm walking through really bad scrub like sharp manzanita thickets, it doesn't matter how "durable" a rain jacket claims to be, it will get torn up.

I'm only talking about off trail, below the treeline trips.

""I've had a couple of gore-tex jackets delaminate, but does PU?"

The gore tex jackets would be covered by their warranty at least. What were you doing with the jackets and how old were they?"

Apologies,I've been on holidays.

Re the Gore-tex jackets – just normal light use, and yes they were replaced under warranty.

Surprised this item hasn't been discussed more. Looks like they revised it this year and trimmed the weight from 110g down to 75g. 2.6oz for a waterproof shell? Damn that's light! Anyone else have experience with it?

75 grams is nuts. I'm willing to bet that the price being paid is close to zero breathability. To the point where it may as well be made out of cuben (which would make it lighter again).

> If I'm walking through really bad scrub like sharp manzanita thickets, it doesn't > matter how "durable" a rain jacket claims to be, it will get torn up. We found that silnylon normally slides off the Australian scrub, but when it threatens to get really bad, we face reality and put the ponchos away. We WILL get wet under the poncho in that sort of scrub anyhow, so … we get wet. Tough. Cheers

Yeah that's an interesting thought Roger-taking the poncho off in thick scrub. Tough Australian Veg doesn't always mean there is a canopy present…but if there is one (and regardless, I totally agree in thick wet veg water has a way of getting inside any shell…) then a "windshell" of subpar HH is otherwise enough as the force of the precipitation will be lower anyway.

I have waxed and waned a thought over the years that the ideal "Vanishing Falls Shell" is probably not WPB at all. Something like XPAC or Dyneema grid on the front torso and arms, lighter breathable DWR back (under the pack), something with a softer hand but tough for the hood. You are working so hard that no WPB can keep up and/or you are soaked from the vegetation. You just want something light that will last. Horror stories abound of people taking fancy Gore down there and coming bag with a piece of what is basically mesh.

> I'm willing to bet that the price being paid is close to zero breathability. Isn't that just FUD? I still think someone needs to put it to the test to know for sure. The Montane Minimus 777 Smock is coming in around 4oz.

I wrote that a couple years ago and since have realized that in practice that system is a pain. I now just carry cheap rain gear and plan on thrashing it. California has been pretty dry for the past few years and I haven't had to worry about these things much. Roger, do you really want to walk through scrub without a waterproof layer when it's 35 degrees and raining? I would get hypothermia very quickly doing that. Sure a rain jacket wont keep you dry, but wading through wet brush sends cold water flowing through your clothing. For me, off trail travel often involves slow movements and lots of stops to look around and figure out how to get around obstacles. It's not like a trail where you can just walk faster or even jog a bit.

Hi Justin > Roger, do you really want to walk through scrub without a waterproof layer when it's > 35 degrees and raining? Nope. Bad scene. Fortunately, I do have the freedom to (mostly) avoid doing that. Also, around here that sort of weather does not happen very much. Up in our alpine area, around Kosci and Jagungal, you can get that sort of weather but without the scrub. And if really, really gets bad, we stop and camp. Yeah, I am a wimp. But I don't see why I have to be a really unhappy wimp. Cheers