Cracked alloy tent pole – what to do?

I would use a small automotive hose clamp to form it back into shape and close the crack. Insert the other section first to keep from collapsing it. Then, I'd wrap/whip it with nylon thread/line and apply epoxy to the thread/line wrap. Much like some fishing rods are done. Might just work well enough so you don't even have to replace it.

Hi Stuart

REPLACE!

However, in the meantime … repairs. Reshape with hose clamp carefully, then wrap about 4 turns of Coke can shim around it with Araldite, tighten with hose clamp over plastic film or brass shim so the layering is TIGHT, and use 24-hour Araldite. Note that Araldite will bond to aluminium but not to brass, so a layer of shim brass can be used as a release layer.

Winding nylon fishing line around is a non-starter: it stretches far too much. Using glass fibre (string or cloth) would work, as would carbon fibre, but they need to be TIGHT.

This held for a couple of weeks in the Pyrenees one year. Heavy Al lid off a sardine can. Well, it was all I could find at 2,000 m!

Cheers

Would just replace the section, but do not recognize the pole type.
Can you tell us? Replacement sections might be available.
In the meantme, please advise the outer diameter of the pole section. It appears to possibly have a larger diameter lip at the end which might interfere with a snug fit on a splint piece slid over the break.
Or, this might be a good time to replace the whole pole set with DAC Featherlight or Easton 7075T7 pole sections.
I don't bother to suggest carbon anymore. Folks have had too many bad experiences with low grade carbon.
If the poles are prebent, you might ask Roger to do prebends on his 'Rolling Jenny.'
Just a thought.

Roger—
I had a broken pole on a long trip and resorted of course to your fix except I had to use what was hand as like an idiot as I did not bring a repair sleeve.

Next time bring a repair sleeve, or better yet a spare pole section.

Roger—with your solution, or at least with mine, I had to pull the rest of the trip with my pole section in a permanent length dictated by the length of 2 poles together—which made for some interesting hiking under rhodo and brush, etc.

Some excellent tent makers sell their tents with a spare tent pole section (Hilleberg).

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that if I'm planning a long expedition style trip I bring a spare pole section, a repair sleeve, and a small length of shock cord as just in case one pole section breaks apart (the cord, that is—my poles are old and the cord wearing out).

Beyond this there's the cautionary tale—double check all pole joints before placing and bending. Even a slightly split "female" pole end (as pictured in the first post) will eat thru shock cord and then you have a real problem—other than the split end widening and ripping apart.

Looks like a DAC pole. I've had two sections of those poles fail on me in the past 18 months on a four season tent. The first one I reinforced with an aluminum repair sleeve and duct tape. The second section was a minor "tear" just like yours, and I simply have duct tape around it to remind me of where it is busted. To be honest, I'd be much more concerned about damage to the tent body than to the pole tear getting worse.

After thirty years of using Easton poles, I'm amazed at how quickly the DAC poles have failed under "normal wear and tear." In my experience, I've never had an Easton pole fail (beyond the occasional heavy bend or a sticky ferrule.)
I recently bought a DAC pole set on EBay with the same diameter and pole length as my broken set, just to have a set around to cannibalize, in case this trend continues.
The DAC poles are clearly lighter than Easton, but at a cost of durability (IMHO).

Matt

"The DAC poles are clearly lighter than Easton, but at a cost of durability (IMHO)."

They're cheaper and sourced in Asia closer to where most tents are made. Follow the money…

-H

It is a DAC pole, but I would class this failure as due to "operator error" rather than "normal wear and tear". In the dark, I didn't ensure that both sections were fully mated before bending the pole. I suspect that the shock cord which normally pulls the sections together has lost some elasticity due to age.
The flared end is part of the damage. I will cut off the flared tip (just a few mm) and bandage the rest as per Roger's suggestion. Thanks for the tips!

When you say "DAC poles" you gotta remember that DAC has 4 different kind—
** DAC Featherlite NSL
** DAC Featherlite
** DA17
** Pressfit

Hilleberg uses the DAC Featherlite NSL as shown in link–
http://www.dacpole.com/html/nsl_new.htm

I've been using their poles for the last 8 years on a near constant basis (10mm diameter) and have had no failures—although occasionally the DAC end caps on the male ends work themselves out—as below. Hilleberg offered to send me a new set of poles no charge but so far I'm able to lightly hammer them back in.

As far as "following the money", well, it doesn't make much sense considering Hilleberg charges $600 or $800 for their tents and still uses DAC poles. Are we being duped?

tent pole folding ?
got to be kidding .. right ?

nah, not at all, there are ways to do it "wrong".
if one folds poles from one end, pulling each section apart and then going to the next, then the stretch will be a percentage of the total avail stretch. and by the time you get to the far end, you'll be stretching the cord a greater percentage, until you perhaps run out of it, and are abusing the ability of things to stretch over and over. thusly, one may ruin the cord, and that can lead to pole failure during future assembly.

my proposed solution to this critical element of human existence is to begin every pole folding op by starting at the center joint (or close to it), and then breaking them down half again over and over. this i suspect more evenly distributes the stretching over the entire length of the cord.
so : all of that sounds good.
is there any more to it ?

sure – being this is bpl, rest assured there is always going to be lurking another few percent we can do better.

since is is apparent that a bit of "extra" stretch is built into tent pole cord, for reasons of coping with "end folder" types of people, it follows that there is probably "too much" cord once one knows what one is doing.
too much cord ! OMG !!!
that's extra weight. and worse yet, it's weight doing not a darn useful thing.
to that end, one can usually pull an end cap, and somewhat gleefully shorten the cord.
it's free weight savings. and you'll never miss it.

cheers,
peter v.

> As far as "following the money", well, it doesn't make much sense considering Hilleberg charges $600 or $800 for their tents and still uses DAC poles. Are we being duped?

There's a back story behind why Hilleberg switched from Easton to DAC and it involves both cost and supply times. DAC poles are cheaper and the higher failure rates at least on the lighter/less expensive grades has a lot to do with shorter joint tube lengths (in comparison to Easton). Stress concentrates at the joints and if they're not completely seated they fracture. The longer Easton joints give you more room for error especially as the shock cord ages and stretches. Peter is absolutely correct that everyone should run out and pop the tips off their poles to tighten up the shockcord so that the poles fully seat during setup and takedown.

-H

I doubt if "tent pole folding"—whether done from the middle or the end—has much relevance to this discussion and whether there's any connection to tent pole failure by folding from the end. I fold from the middle to lessen shock cord tension and maybe it increases the life of my cord but I doubt snapping the poles together after folding up either way produces a split pole end.

Some shock cord is tighter than others so the snapping act at set up is more important than the folding style. I try to ease the poles together instead of allowing them to snap in place—although I doubt if it really matters as I've done both over the years.

I think Stuart R's "operator's error" is far more a cause of pole damage—or stepping on the poles with your boots when they are on the ground—a common event.

And I've rarely seen shock cord so slack as to need pulling and cutting—although of course on some cheap tents this happens after a few years of use. Usually when a shock cord starts getting slack it's worn enough at the pole junctions (frayed) that it needs replacing. BUT for me the tent itself needs replacing before the pole cords do—due to UV fly damage or zipper damage or tent fly holes or just a plain worn out tent. And with a new tent comes new poles with new cords.

Beyond this, there's the common feature of elastic permanently stretching and this has been a real problem for Hilleberg tents in regard to the elastic they use to connect their suspended inner tents to the outers. Over several years of hard use these connectors permanently deform and stretch but I worked it out with Hilleberg in a series of emails—and this subject is not really pertinent here. For that discussion see—

http://www.trailspace.com/forums/gear-repair/topics/142719.html#142719

Henry Shires—

The Easton is on left and the DAC Featherlite NSL is on right. DAC is 10mm, Easton is 8mm? 9mm?

You're right that the Easton pole tips are longer than the DAC Featherlite NSL and so of course there's a slightly greater chance with improper seating will come failure. This could happen on both type of poles. The vital point I think is that we make dang sure the poles are together before using.

Over the years I have used different lubricants to help in getting the poles together—either a silicone gel or MSR stove cup oil rubbed on the joints. This is important on winter trips when the joints freeze together.

“The vital point I think is that we make dang sure the poles are together before using.”

While that is completely sound advice, (and likely self-assumed for many of us on this list) I suspect that this advise is not adequately communicated to the average tent purchaser at the average outdoor retailer. Having worked for many years (and subsequently set up many, many tents) at REI, I was always very comfortable working with Easton poles, and vary rarely needed to replace poles for customers (they would occasionally bring in the "bent" pole section to replace, but I never saw the poles tear). Easton pole sections would easily snap together shut, and could typically be pushed or pulled through a sleeve with relative ease.

In my personal experience with DAC poles over the past several years (as a replacement set on a Moss Big Dipper), I have appreciated their lightness, but have found them to be very “delicate” to work with, compared to working with Easton poles. And now, since having “torn” two DAC pole sections over the past year, I am even more concerned about their overall durability. Now part of the problem lies in the fact that I have a sleeved tent, which requires numerous intersections to be crossed, and I was unaware that a couple of my DAC poles (with noticeable shock cord slack) would actually pose a higher risk of breaking, due in-part to the higher risk of the poles becoming unseated as they are pushed through the sleeves (pulling them through doesn't work whatsoever).

As far as high-end tent makers are concerned, I am certain they all have their reasons why they use what they use (cost/availability/longevity/customer service, etc.), but I am certain that any “specs” on pole strength are formulated based on proper pole assembly, and nothing more. There is always pressure to make camping gear lighter, but the balance between lightness and durability should never leave the forefront of attention. And for the most part, DAC seems established enough with tent makers that they likely have a good track record.

But because it happened to me personally, I’m not sure that I actually “trust” the DAC poles on my heavy duty tent anymore. This issue of DAC poles failing reminds me of zippers failure: Is it my kid’s fault that they didn't hold their jacket in a specific way to keep the zipper teeth from tearing apart? Or should the jacket have been designed with a more durable/useable zipper installed? It’s hard to say what the right answer is, but to me, it's still well within the definition of "normal wear and tear".

Most of us pick a shelter design we like or need, whether 4 season or not, and have other criteria other than pole types, such as tent weight and sq footage. In fact, we have to settle for whatever poles come with the tent, whether Easton or DAC. I know of few people who would start their search for a tent based on what company makes the poles. But maybe some do.

It was not long ago… geologically speaking, when "fiberglass or Easton" was a common question for any serious shopper in search for their ideal tent.

I'm sure there are many souls who would prefer to scrutinize DAC, Easton, or all the carbon fiber pole-types out there, in order to find their right balance, if given the choice.

Especially the many souls on this list serve!

:)

With reference to the photo of joiners posted by Tipi Walter:

Yes, the DAC connection is effectively much shorter than the Easton connection, despite the first appearance in the photo. The reason is that the Easton pole is much slimmer. You have to look at the length of the joint in terms of how many diameters it is. Actual millimetres length is not the point.

Imagine if you were joining two poles with the same length joiner as the Easton pole but your pole diameter was (say) 2". The joiner would then be shorter than a single diameter – and it is obvious that will not work! Engineering.

The Easton 7075 T9 alloy is unequalled by any other pole manufacturer. The DAC alloy is not as strong. Simple metallurgy. Why doesn't DAC (or any one else) use 7075 T9 alloy for their poles? Because they don't know how to do the tempering. It is still, after all these years, an Easton-proprietary secret process.

I use Eston tubing for joiners, but have switched to high-quality carbon fibre poles with a multi-layer 2-D wrapped construction. Once again, there are many sources for cheaper weaker CF tubing. Cheaper is always available.

Cheers

I agree with what Dean recommended:
" wrap/whip it with nylon thread/line and apply epoxy to the thread/line wrap."

What I would add here is to first roughen up the surface with sand paper to increase the bond strength with the epoxy. Form the pole back into shape so you have a good fit but don't apply the epoxy while they pieces are together – you may not be able to separate them. Wrap the cracked area with nylon thread (kevlar thread if you can get some) and wet it out with epoxy (superglue works here too). If you have a friend that flies radio control sailplanes, they probably have all the repair material you need.

Mike

I see that most people here are in favor of Easton aluminum poles so I don't understand why Hilleberg would choose DAC for their "black label" four season tents, considering they have access to the best hardwear in the marketplace as reflected in the costs of their tents. Why charge $800 for a tent and use a clearly inferior tent pole? Is it because of "cost and supply times" as Henry says??

Here's a quote from their catalog—
"POLES"
"A high performance tent must have a skeleton worthy of the strength of its skin. We use DAC poles, because we believe they offer the kind of superior performance that
our fabrics do, and on most models, we use the DAC Featherlite NSL poles. The section-connecting inserts on the NSL poles are nearly the same diameter as the pole section itself, so the poles are both significantly stronger and lighter than standard-style poles."

"We select the optimal pole length(s) and diameter for each tent model, and, if necessary, we pre-bend them. 9 mm poles go into both our Yellow Label and our Red Label models because, like these models’ Kerlon 1000 and 1200 outer tent fabrics, they offer plenty of strength at a very low weight. We use stronger 10 mm poles with our Black Label tents, since these are designed to handle the most extreme conditions."

This quote from—
http://www.hilleberg.com/home/tent_info/materials2013.php

This is an interesting subject but can probably only be answered with an actual interview with Petra Hilleberg or one of the designers. I doubt if anyone here knows the answer. I'm sure they have their test results and spec sheets.

I made a temporary repair using a bandage of aluminium bound with cord filament and impregnated with epoxy which held it all together.

Then I contacted the UK agent for Vaude and they sent me a replacement pole section for free. Excellent service which deserves this recognition.

I would say its time for a hammock.

Well, thanks for the follow-up here.
That really was nice of them to replace the pole/section.

As far as hammock, I suppose a hammock could be used in the groves. I think it is a bit avant garde to take a hammock on the moor. I can't imagine trekking poles do the trick..?

Call Tentpole Technologies, give the info requested and they will ship you a new pole.

This company is great to deal with. As soon as I get my new Moment DW W/ripstop inner I'll be ordering "winter duty" poles from them for both main and crossing poles. I got a heavy duty main pole from them for my Scarp 2 winter mods.