So what is the deal with rain pants?

[Andrew F]

Don't neglect the humble rain skirt as a compromise if you don't need the full protection. Mine weighs 1.4 oz and packs to the size of a small pair of socks. I made it out of a scrap of silnylon and some stretchy cord in about 15 minutes. If you are thrashing through brush your lower legs will get soaked regardless.

[Nathan Watts]

And rain shorts. Bought some last year, but admittedly haven't tried them yet.

Perhaps they're better in theory than in practice for me, since like I mentioned earlier, I tend to put on rain pants when the temps are pretty low – and at those temps I don't think rain shorts would be what I'm looking for. I haven't been tempted to put on the WPB shorts in warmer rainy conditions yet – opting instead to just keep my running shorts on and get wet. But I also haven't encountered any prolonged warm rainy days (since acquiring the wpb shorts) where I might want to keep my upper legs dry.

[Dale Wambaugh]

What is the deal with rain pants?

You wear them on your lower body to stay warm and dry. It seams there is a lot of resistance to packing them. I would love to leave the weight behind, but miles of walking in cold rain with wet pants stuck to my legs isn't on my fun list.

It is much the same vein as trying to use a windshirt as a rain shell, or going without basic shelter. There are some items that can keep you comfortable, if not alive. Do definitely work at finding the lightest version with the highest performance, but don't leave them out all together. UL doesn't have to be a misery tour!

[Brett Peugh]

Yeah, I think I am just going to use my trash bag rain skirt mainly and pack that because they are more versatile and just keep the Golite ones as an aside.

[Joel Benford]

For DWR, I wash the gear regularly to stop my sweat dissolving the DWR, and reproof periodically with NikWax TX Wash In. Note that any DWR you apply bonds to the original factory treatment, so if the original is gone (scraped off by branches or whatever) it's over.

[Dustin Short]

In the desert I don't get much chance to test extended rainy weather techniques…except when I canyoneer.

My very first backpacking trip I spent 95% of my time in 40F water that was consistently between ankle and waist deep. Shoes froze solid over night. I would simply change into long johns to sleep and was perfectly fine pulling on icy cold clothes in the morning (okay, maybe not "fine" but it got me moving on the trail proper quick). I just need neoprene socks to keep feet warm and was fine in light nylon supplex pants.

As long as my torso and pelvic region stays relatively dry and warm, soaked legs don't seem to cause me much problem when I'm on the move. When I stop, any plastic/waterproof sheeting does a decent job of preventing evaporative heat loss, or changing into dry sleep clothes.

The only time I've ever been dangerously cold is when I was caught in the dreaded 30-40F wet weather without any waterproof gear. Then the issue was my soaked torso…but non stop hiking kept me alive and warm enough to finish my hike (last day). I was exposed to every form of precipitation from snow to fog for 12 hours straight at elevation. It was miserable but if I had shelter or a rain jacket (again I was inexperienced at the time) I would have waited out the storm or been safely warm. I did promptly by a waterproof jacket when I got home. Everything since has taught me a jacket is critical, but haven't found a need for pants yet.

I'm sure Kat's comments apply to her style of hiking but they are not universal statements. If your style of hiking involves non-stop movement with a bare minimum of short breaks, then wet legs are not a major concern as long as you pay attention to proper thermoregulation (don't get lazy and not wrap up in plastic if you stop more than 30 seconds).

Rain pants do however provide an extra layer of security for minimal weight if you use them as a replacement for wind pants. But I still think supplex pants are good enough in rain weather because they don't stick to your leg as much as a thinner and lighter pant, This keeps the water off you and traps warm air (and they often dry to "damp" over night. I'd much rather have the extra weight of dry long johns to sleep in then the same weight of rain pants.

It just depends on your style of hike. If you move a lot and generate heat all day and have the gear to keep you warm and dry in camp, then rain pants aren't necessary. If you are more stop and go and use the same clothes you hike in for camp as well as the trail because of a slower pace needing more warmth, then rain pants are a better (maybe necessary) option.

EDIT: I should probably put in the caveat that I'm talking about just lightweight backpacking in typical 2-3 season weather. For colder temps with lots of snow or mountaineering the issue becomes a bit murkier. I'm still a strong believer though that bailing on a trip or hunkering down is still safer than "trusting" some gear to see you through conditions that would normally give you pause.

[Nathan Watts]

"My very first backpacking trip I spent 95% of my time in 40F water that was consistently between ankle and waist deep."

Do you mean air temperature? Or was the water really that cold? That's brutal. I don't think I could tolerate that for an extended period. But my experience with water at those temps has not been while wearing neoprene socks. It was actually painfully cold. Maybe you get used to it after a little while though.

And rain pants aren't going to help much with that type of hiking anyway.

[Dale Wambaugh]

"Interested to know what DWR treatments people are applying to their wind gear to get good water resistance as described by a few"

Yeah, the factory stuff and Nikwax. DWR does well with drizzle and light sporadic rain, leaving you enough protection that you aren't in and out of rain gear all the time.

My last downpour experience in light softshell pants with the DWR intact was poor. I had worn them in light rain with good results, but this time it really started to pour as I was getting back to the trailhead, and I didn't want to stop and change as I was just 15 minutes from the car. The water slid off my rain jacket and when the DWR failed, the pants were soaked through in a couple minutes. No crisis, but cold, wet, and the fabric was stuck to my legs. Not the way I would want to do real miles on a trail and then camping.

A simple 7-10oz pair of rain pants would have taken care of the whole issue. Everyone winces at the weight and the temptation to go without is strong, but it just doesn't pay for me and goes in the "stupid light" column.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Buck,
Thanks for that photo of you in a rain suit in cold rain and sleet. That photo is proof positive that rain pants can be lifesavers. As a ski patroller I have seen enough foul weather hypothermia to know how dangerous it is.

To the OP, definitely keep the REI Kimtah eVent pants. eVent breathes so well that they can be used,like the kimtah parka, as wind protection.
**Just be sure to use Gore's REVIVEX spray for DWR renewal. It is the best DWR I've found. Great on sleeping bags too.

[Hiking Malto]

I normally will hike in shorts in the rain combined with a cuben rain jacket. Where rain pants are nice is near freezing temperatures. In those conditions in moderate to heavy rain I will wear rain pants along with cap 1 bottoms. Not as comfortable as shorts but it beats total wet pants. On the last day of the Bob Open trip I had waist deep stream crossings combined with wet overgrown trail combined with rain. My pants were soaked, shorts soaked no I was starting to chafe bad. In this scenario there was no way of staying dry, short of stripping down for stream crossings. But if it were just rain and wet overgrown trail I would have worn the rain pants.

But I did wear the rain pants and jacket as a VBL while spending the night in a tree well. This double use potential is the main reason I carry the pants vs. other options. If it were summering the east I may not even take them.

[Sam Farrington]

I guess the posts form Dale W and Buck confirm that weather in NW US and Canada merits rain pants, even though I haven't needed them in Colorado and New England when backpacking.

In mid-May, I was on the Cohos Trail in northern NH for a week, with three days of extended rain. But here the extended rain fluctuates back and forth between light drizzle and heavy deluges, and there is usually some cover below tree line. The Marmot Rockstar soft shell pants I used never got anywhere near wetted out, let along sopped, and dried out completely in the tent each night. Usually, they were dry enough by bedtime, that I just wore them in the bag. Had the same experience with them last year. Hope the DWR holds up.

In response to Kat P's question about bringing a change of clothes, absolutely. In addition to the Patagonia baggies – extra briefs, a fleece top and cap, Cocoon PG Delta puffy top and bottom, 2 pair extra heavy coolmax sox and thinsulate booties stay dry in the clothes bag. These have saved my bacon often enough when the temperature plummeted at night after extended rain that I'm willing to carry that much weight. There have been some nights when it took all of it to sleep comfortably and warm in the sleeping bag. Not sure that this combination would work more than a week of extended rain without a break, but that would be pretty unusual for the NE or CO.

The ReviveX line is made by McNett, the same company that makes Seam-Grip sealer.

What I'm getting from this thread is that what you can leave behind to save weight depends on the region you are going to and the season. The recent increases in fluctuations in climate do make it more difficult to plan, however.

[Brett Peugh]

Yeah but I really don't see how rain pants are a whole lot better than a trash bag rain skirt which is more breathable.

[K C]

Try bushwhacking in Alaska in a trash bag, hahahaha

[Brett Peugh]

I don't and never will, really not a sustainable place to be/thing to do. You go around bushes and thickets, not through them. And rain pants would not last much longer or at least the DWR won't.

And this is not to be rude towards the poster but why do people take an example of what 97% of the community will probably never experience to justify a gear piece?

But at the same time I know I really never want to hike above the tree line and there is not much elevation around where I live. But I do get that they are good to have around freezing temps where it might be windy and/or rainy. I would not take them as wind protection because they are about 12oz for the REI eVent ones and that is a bit heavy for wind and they don't easily fit over my size 15EEs. I will probably use a pant/shorts with the trash bag and then rain pants if it gets below 60F at which point I will the keep the Golite ones as they are more versatile and can vent while the REI eVents ones are going back unused.

[Sam Farrington]

"…what 97% of the community will probably never experience …"

Brett, trekking on the higher, and therefore more exposed areas in the Rockies, the Pacific and Appalachian crests, is pretty popular, and that's just in the continental USA. These are areas where inadequate protection from weather can be fatal.

Trash bag skirts and such are fine for places we are familiar with and know will not be overly threatening. But cannot agree that is apropos to 97%.

I guess what concerns me is the continual discussion on this site of weight-saving measures with gear that are likely to lull folks into dangerous situations. I don't just enjoy packing light, I have to pack light due to my age and physical condition.
That is the only way I can still enjoy backpacking, a lifelong passion. But I'm going to make darn sure I have the gear that will protect me "when things go wrong," to borrow form the title of Roger Caffin's super article on this site. With some careful foresight, there is no reason why we cannot be both 'gear smart' and 'gear light' at the same time.

[Brett Peugh]

No, that was to point out about bushwacking in Alaska. I know alot of people like going on those trails but the few I have known really never went with any rain pants and were fine. Not saying they shouldn't have. Instead I go on things like the Oregon Coastal trail or just free ranging and bumming. Never felt the need to summit a mountain or be 10k up.

but then again it is that whole thing or trying to be prepared for every situation and taking everything or being light and taking the minimum. Me, I just try not to put myself into situations.

[Sam Farrington]

Well, when hiking through unfamiliar mountains, which I'll wager happens with a lot more than 3% of us, it's not always sure if what awaits is apples or oranges.

Sounds like we both spend a lot of time in familiar territory, so we both know enough about what to expect to be able to do without rain pants. But going into unfamiliar territory is exciting, and popular with many. The long stretches well above timberline on the Continental Divide in CO, for example, might well merit rainpants if they were in other regions where the rain gets long and merciless.
Not to mention the current changes in climate that are full of surprises.

And it sounds from this thread that even where rain pants are not critical, they can often make a trek much for comfortable. So while I don't use them, I might in different places, and so don't rule them out altogether.

[steven franchuk]

"Interested to know what DWR treatments people are applying to their wind gear to get good water resistance as described by a few."

First you need to understand hydrostatic had and what DWR does. DWR is nothing more than a microscopic coating of fiber that prevents water from sticking to the fiber. The DWR material does not bridge the gaps between the fibers.

Hydrostatic head is a measure of how much water pressure is needed to push water through the fabric. A hydrostatic head of 0mm means zero pressure. Most rain jackets have a hydrostatic head of 20,000mm or more. Wind shirt typically have a hydrostatic head of zero.

If you have a piece of dense nylon non dwr fabric it will block the wind well but have a hydrostatic head of zero. If you then apply DWR to it, its hydrostatic head is now,, zero. All The DWR coating did was to make it easy for the water to roll off the surface. The DWR doesn't fill in the gaps between the fibers so there is nothing to prevent pressure from forcing water through the empty space between fibers.

Now consider the raindrop. If it is very small (mist) it will land onto the fabric with almost zero force. It will just sit on the surface of the fabric and then eventually role off. However larger rain drops will hit the fabric at speed and that speed will apply pressure that can drive the water through the fabric of a wind shirt. However in waterproof fabric with high hydrostatic head the rain simply bounces off. Large rain drops traveling very fast simply cannot generate enough pressure to force water through a waterproof fabric.

siimply put a wind shirt (with a hydrostatic head of zero) in a good rain will never prevent water from getting through.

"For DWR, I wash the gear regularly to stop my sweat dissolving the DWR"

Sweat (a mixture of oil, water, and salt) doesn't desolve the DWR. Its just a contaminant. Rain will stick to oil and salt and dirt while water doesn't stick to the DWR. So if your rain jacket is dirty water will stick the dirt preventing the DWR from doing its job. Frequent cleaning minimizes contaminants and dirt allowing the DWR to work.

dirt also abrades the fibers to the jacket, removing the DWR and damaging the fibers making the fibers sticky. Even if all the DWR wears off you can still reapply it. However you cannot undo the damage to the fibers. And eventually that damage will prevent any reapplied DWR from working.

[Brian Lindahl]

> but after hours of it, even at 55 degrees, they felt differently.

Kat,

I can say with personal experience, hiking all day in rain with temperatures around 50 to 55 degrees, I was completely fine with a long sleeve merino top, a windshirt, lightweight synthetic underwear and supplex nylon shorts.

To each their own, but that works for me in relatively cold temperatures. In colder temperatures, I've found that if you can find a way to keep your thighs and your upper body dry, having wet lower legs doesn't present a danger (i.e. a rain skirt works well).

This includes open/exposed areas to alpine winds/rain.

[Cayenne Redmonk]

Hiking hard to stay warm works !

right up until the twist of an ankle, get sick, bonk, or otherwise can't produce enough heat to stay warm.

[Derrick White]

For 3 season trips, besides my base lawyer merinos, rain pants are the only pants I bring. I usually wear shorts while hiking and my rain pants are my camp night pants, worn with merino underneath.

If it is too cold for shorts while hiking, which is rare, I wear the rain pants.

My pants are Arcteryx Beta SL. Not the lighest but breathable, multifunctional and durable.

Derrick

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