ZPacks 20 vs. Katabatic Gear Alsek vs. ? bag

I recently tried the quilt thing to lighten my load. I found the quilt ( 20 degree, 12 oz fill of down) remarkably lite, but I was cold at around 38 degrees in a TT Contrail, with the vestibule open for venting. I strapped it all down, cinched it all up the next night, but was still cold. I was wearing long underwear and two top layers.
I also have a Phantom 32 to use in warmer months in the Sierras. I to found it to be cold at anything below 44 degrees. I bought and have used a Marmot Helium 15 degree down sleeping bag which I got for a good price on sale. I used it a few weekends ago in temps below freezing. I'm very happy with the sleeping bag which weighs 2 lbs. 2 oz. My search is over.
If your a cold sleeper, I think you'll need something in the 15 degree range. I hope this helped. I don't want to mention which quilt company I tried. They're a great company and the quilt was well built. I just found quilts aren't for me.

Hi David,

As you probably know, the freezing point is a huge dividing line when it comes to the warmth of sleeping bags. Most bags rated 30 or 32° would not be warm enough for most people when the temperature hits 28°, and you are apparently also a cold-ish sleeper with less natural insulation. So if you're aiming to be comfortable at 25°, I think you'll have to upgrade from your MH Phantom.

I suppose the question is whether you'd be more comfortable below freezing in a bag or a quilt. Since you've never used a quilt before, I would probably suggest borrowing one from a friend (or fellow BPL member) before committing to such a purchase, since using a quilt does not work for everyone (especially colder sleepers). Of the bags/quilts you're considering, I think you'd be warm in either the Zpacks or the Katabatic Alsek at 25°, particularly since you have such a warm sleeping pad in the Xtherm. You also have a down hood and jacket, which would probably add about 5-10° of warmth. If you opted to go for a sleeping bag, I'd probably recommend you consider something like the WM Ultralite or the FF Hummingbird, assuming your shoulders are fairly slender.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
A

Just based on the fill quantities, it would seem like the Katabatic Alsek has the potential to be the warmest in that it has more down and it's concentrated mostly on top of you rather than underneath you. Paired with a good sleeping pad, like your Xtherm, this should be a toasty set-up.

The big question, as others have pointed out, is whether quilts are for you. I made the switch to quilts about 3 years ago and have never looked back. In fact, I recently sold my last mummy bag and now do quilts year round. I currently have two Katabatics (30* and 15*) and a EE Prodigy (50*).

I find the Katabatic strap system works really well for me but there are a couple of caveats:
– You need to make sure you have enough quilt to get a good wrap around you to block out drafts. For me, this has meant going with the "wide" option; and
– The strap system is a little bit fiddly to set up and clip in and out of throughout the night.

I have no experience with the Zpacks bag but I probably have about 100 nights in a Katabatic Alsek by now.

The Alsek is MUCH warmer than a Summerlite. I was shivering in my standard layers in a Summerlite at around 40F, and am comfortable in the Alsek down to 25F with the same layers. Starts to get cold around 20F. The standard-width Alsek is also much wider than a Summerlite in practice.

The pad attachment system does take about 90 seconds of fiddling to set up, but then you don't have to touch it for the rest of the night. My standard procedure is to attach all 8 clips (4 sliders and 4 carabiner things) to the pad when I set up at night. Then, to get out, I just slide out the top (much easier than unzipping a sleeping bag) and don't touch the buckles again until I pack my quilt away in the morning. I don't use the neck snap unless it gets below about 35F.

It is important to have enough head insulation with any quilt. Below about 40F I put on a hat. To get down to 20F, I wear a balaclava and the down hood of my parka. Your face can be colder than in a sleeping bag since there's no dead air space. I find sleeping on my side helps with this, or if it's exceptionally cold the quilt is long enough to pull over my head completely. (I am 5'10 and have the 6' length.) This gets your bag pretty wet though so if you do this you have to plan on drying it out in the morning.

I have other bags but almost never use them anymore – my wife borrows my WM Ultralite or I would sell it and just have the Alsek. The quilt is functional across a wide range of temps – I slept in it at 50F in the desert this last week and was comfortable, and have taken it down to 15F with layers at Rae Lakes in October.

Of those choices, I would go with the Alsek, mostly b/c of the width.

You should at least consider the Nunatak Arc Alpinist as well (if you haven't already). Although a few people on the forums have had customer service problems, I had a great experience with them. You have different options in color, material and fill quantity, but the wait time might be longer. The AA's shoulder and hip widths are wider than the Alsek; the foot box is a little narrower.

Katabatic, EE and ZPacks quilts weren't around a few years ago, so Nunatak was my top choice. They seem to get less mention than a few years ago, but they still make great quilts.

I have a Katabatic Alsek, and I may be selling it. It's absolutely beautiful, but I'm starting to realize that I like bags more than quilts due to the absence of "fiddle factor" (I'm lazy that way)–However for me the experiment with quilts was worth it.

I really like the lack of a hood, though, and that's why I like the Alder. It cinches tightly around the neck, but there's no hood to get lost in. Can be either left or right zip (just flip the bag over). Big enough to wear down clothing in if it gets colder, and it's still relatively small, but extremely comfortable.

Just one more option to consider!

Did the Alsek keep you warm down into the 20's? If you decide to sell it, send me a PM. For the reasons you mentioned, I'm leaning towards the ZPacks 20, although I'd like to get my hands on both to try out if possible.

I think the coldest night I was in it was 28 F and I was a little cold. (I was on a Downmat UL7, wearing fleece pants, socks, and a fleece quarter zip.)

I tend to sleep quite cold, though.

If I decide to sell I will PM you.

http://www.hammockgear.com/burrow-20/

Just ran across this quilt. 21 oz, 12 oz of down, $229(!). Am I missing something here? Why doesn't this quilt get more mention at its pricepoint?

I just went with a custom Feathered Friends Vireo after considering both the Zpacks and Alsek among others. Here is the thread about customizing the Vireo: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=73812

The FF is a great choice. If I wanted a hoodless bag, I'd probably go the same way.

As a note, I have an Alsek and really love it, although I primarily got it because I split time between a hammock and on the ground under a tarp and the quilt provides the most flexibility between the two. The Alsek is one of the finest pieces of gear I've seen with great quality, well thought out items and a few fairly innovative features.