Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter, Insulation, and Rain Protection. Part 2A: Selecting the Lightest, Most Functional Gear – Backpack, Shelter, Sleeping Bag, Sleeping Pad

[Stephanie Jordan]

Companion forum thread to:

Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter, Insulation, and Rain Protection. Part 2A: Selecting the Lightest, Most Functional Gear – Backpack, Shelter, Sleeping Bag, Sleeping Pad

[Brian Lindahl]

> The backpack is new but I've used this kit in the high
> country of NM/sw Co for a while, including snow.

There's no way I could use that exact kit in SW CO high country, except at the height of summer. A 45 degree bag is not even close to warm enough for most mountain SUL trips. The rest you could make do, but an 8×11 is a HUGE windsail in alpine winds, so you can't reliably camp above treeline. That looks like a lower elevation kit to me.

[Kevin Buggie]

Let me clarify a bit, Brian. That is my kit for summer in the mountains (June – early august). I switch the bag for a WM ultralite on both ends of the summer. However, I sleep much warmer than most temperature ratings listed/discussed on BPL and with the down hoody it works fine for me. Fatty foods and a strong metabolism generating heat are key in my experience.

The tarp is a hex so the 11×8 includes the long beak-like ends, so the full coverage area is more like 8×8. Its made it through hail/ snow a number of times, but I do pay quite a bit of attention to site selection. I also try to tie-off the ends to trees/shrubs rather than stakes for peace of mind during storms. The strong-holding groundhog stakes also go on the likely wind bearing cornerd. In the shoulder season I bring an alpha mid instead.

[David Gardner]

John,

There are a couple of other threads here on BPL regarding the durability of polycryo as a tarp material:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=59450

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=59588

I make the GOLD Gear polycryo tarps, so I'm very interested in their durability under real world conditions. I torture tested an early prototype to failure by leaving it set up outdoors for about six months, and what ultimately failed first was a tape-to-tape connection, not the polycryo material. Doesn't seem to me that packing and unpacking should put much stress on the materials, but I haven't tested that yet. I will do another torture test to failure with my current design, but rather than just leave it set up I will pack and unpack multiple times to see how that affects it. Six months of continuous use is my goal, so I will pack and unpack at least 180 times during the test.

I'm going on a week long trip in the Sierras this summer and will take the test tarp as my shelter. Will post the test results on the first thread listed above.

David Gardner

[todd]

While I haven't packed a polycryo shelter, I have crammed, stuffed, folded, rolled my three year old polycryo groundsheet numerous times and still don't have a hole in it.

I have faith in it, when babied a bit!

[Sebastian Boenner]

When I was researching the packs in the comparison chart I wondered about some of the datas. E.g. the volume of the packs:
Is it the overall volume (including side pockets, extension colar etc.)? Or should it be the main compartment only?

E.g. the Murmur Hyperlight is listet with a volume of 2200ci (36L) which is the overall volume given by the manufacturer. The huckePÄCKchen is listet with 1950ci (26L) which reflects only the volume of the main compartment. Due to the manufacturer the outer pockets will add another 8 liters bringing it to 34L in total!

Does the listet weight of the packs include all options (sitmat for the GG packs; bungeecord, hipbelt, etc.) or is it the base weight of the packs with all extras removed?

With more accurate volume to weight ratio listed the packs would be more comparable. But then this would probpaly better fit into a SOTM report. After all when looking for a SUL pack (or any pack) one should do his own more detailed reserach as manufacturers change their designs more often than I change my socks on a hike…

[James Marco]

There is really no agreement about accessories, pouches, bungie cords, hip belts, etc with regard to the packs. There is a large discrepency in listed weights, sometimes as much as an ounce or two, since they don't make all the packs identically. There are several methodes: an average taken for 20 or so packs, the first one off a line, individual component weights, and so on. Nor is there full agreement about what should be included with packs, other than having a main body. Some people like hip belts, others don't use them and remove them…the user often decides what is included by adding a shoulder pouch or attaching water bottles to the shoulder harness, or, by simply removing all excess weight(straps, buckles, excess cordage, hip belts, etc.) It would be nice to be able to compare them.

But, I don't believe it is all that important. A pack that is comfortable should ALWAYS be the best determining factor. I find that even SUL packs (like the Murmur, Zero and others) can be brought up to about a pound, or, reduced to about 5oz (or less,) depending on what the user wants/needs.

[Sebastian Boenner]

You're right that the most important part is the fit/ comfort of a pack.
I don't start counting grams on my packs if they don't fit properly. But at least the volume (which would probaply not differ that much from pack to pack) should be explained in more detail. Meaning that it's a huge difference if 2200ci refers to the main body only or if 2200ci means 1500ci in the main body plus 700ci in all kinds of compartments, pouches, etc.
I once purchased a quite lightweight pack that was listet with 20 liters. I could hardly get my sleepingbag into it as most of those 20 liters was divided among several external pockets. Had to sent it back!

[James Marco]

I agree. There would be a lot less confusion if they listed both the total and the main compartment. I also purchased a pack like you, a pocketed pack that had 7 large pockets and the main body was about twice the size of one of the pockets. I ended up using it on my bike rides into work. It barley fit 3 8"x11" notebooks in the main body. Like many Osprey packs, the volume went INTO the pack. Filling the pouches left no room.

[Elizabeth Tracy]

I've been in the "lightweight" or "ultralight" category for a long time. But this is the first time I've realized that SUL may actually be in reach for me. An enclosed shelter in the SUL category? Really? That had never crossed my mind.

Thank you for laying this out in such an accessible format. I'm not one to be interested in reading about the appearance of a single new product (such as the latest new SUL pack). But featuring ALL of what are in your opinion the best SUL products, laid out in charts with prices, weights, photographs, etc., well that is just enormously helpful and really eye-opening.

Not only does the technology continue to involve, but it looks to me like there is a lot more choice than before, and that the prices are coming way down.

I have one minor criticism, to echo some of the other replies: When baseline acceptable sleeping bag ratings are mentioned, please, it should ALWAYS be stated that it is one thing for men and another for women. Otherwise it looks like you assumed that your entire reading audience is male. (The difference, based on available research, appears to be 10-15 degrees.) I notice that a 30-degree bag is the standard consistently mentioned on BPL. It is time for BPL reviewers to consistently state that it is "30 for men, 15-20 for women." And yes, in both cases this assumes people are wearing all of their warm clothing to bed to extend the warmth of the bag. And drinking warm liquids before bed, and eating fatty foods, and doing jumping jacks to warm up, and maybe bringing Hot Hands or a hot water bottle to bed, and ALL that.

We took 7 newbie women to 11,000 feet in the Sierras, end of August, typical night temps for that time of year (end-of-summer, beginning-of-fall). We told them all to buy 15-20 degree bags and wear all their clothes to bed. Got down to about 34-35 degrees at night and they reported that they were "just barely warm enough." This was doubled up in fully enclosed tents and with sufficient sleeping pads. And most of them still had to pull out the Hot Hands. I can't imagine how much trouble we'd have gotten into with a recommendation to go with a 30-degree bag.

– Elizabeth

[david smith]

I'm new so take this for what its worth…I agree with the sleeping bag (I have the zpacks 20 degree) and pads, but I just cant seem to fathom the backpacks? Maybe it's because I'm older and need more support. I did a test yesterday with a golite jam pack vs my Deuter 45+10 AC. The jam feels like I was carrying a bag of groceries on a string! Granted I had 34 lbs just to test, I would normally carry 23 max with food and water. Am I missing something? Specifically my shoulders tend to get sore
Thanks!

[James Marco]

23 pound is a lot. This is for two nights? That is a lot. I carry 23 pouds for about 12 days out.

Anyway a lot of sleeping at lower temps is getting a skill set down. I use long johns (medium weight for temps below 32F,) long wool socks and a down jacket. It also means getting your body adjusted to colder temps. Going directly from 60-70F to 35F is not hard if you know and prepare for it.

Hiking with packs will often make your shoulders/upper neck region sore after a full day. Try a couple weeks of carrying a 35 pound pack every day for a mile or two. It goes away.

[david smith]

Sorry, 23 lbs is for 6 days 5 nights. I am doing the almost daily 30lb pack carry around my neighborhood and you are correct. How do you pack that much food for 12 days and only 23 lbs?

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