electrolyte supplements—capsules in particular–how many?

I've been using Salt Stick Caps and Salt Stick Caps Plus (with caffeine!) for day hiking and backpacking since last year.

How many? It depends.

If I'm sweating a lot during the hike (most hikes with air temps above 60° F), I take one capsule per hour. For really hot or strenuous trips, that's not enough, and I'll take more at the end of the day. But the rest of my diet is pretty low in sodium/salt. I've learned the signs and symptoms of too little salt for my body, and I try to stay ahead of the game.

How much I drink is absolutely critical. For years, I though many of my symptoms (insomnia, cramps, extreme fatigue) came from too little water, so I drank even more, which made things worse. After I started taking the Salt Stick Caps, those problems have virtually ended. Sometimes I forget, and I pay the price pretty quickly.

For most people, slightly overdosing on salt for a few days or weeks will make very little difference to your health – your sweat glands and kidneys will eliminate the excess salt easily, unless you are very dehydrated. On the other hand, too little salt and/or too much water can lead to serious illness or death – see "hyponatremia".

If you are not having a problem with too little salt, you might not need electrolytes at all. I did fine without added salt or electrolytes for decades.

Others will argue from science and studies that taking electrolytes while hiking doesn't make any difference. All I know is what works for me.

You'll need to figure out what works for you.

— Rex

“But I tend to sweat a lot, so I need some kind of electrolyte replacement.”

Maybe … depends on how much you sweat, what foods you eat. For general hiking (JMT, July, 20 to 25 miles per day) it usually isn’t an issue. Read your food labels to see what you are already getting. Add potato chips to your snack list. But if things aren’t working it’s time to figure it out.

This Thread covers a lot of ground, and even though it is about one day events, you will learn a lot. Skip down to my (Greg Mihalik) second post, then read the rest, forward and back. And there are other electrolyte posts as well.

For a more specific answer you need to provide specific scenarios and what went wrong. Otherwise it’s all just shooting in the dark. Just doing a “capsule count” is a waste of time and money, as most are way to low in essentials to accomplish anything (except drain your bank account.)

As mentioned, this is an individual thing that you will have to work out by trial and error.

Drink when you are thirsty and supplement with food (simple carbs especially) during exercise. Do not over hydrate! Hypotonic drinks, which water, sports drinks, and add-in powders are, can be dangerous.

Considering reading, although it is admittedly a very tough read (many references and somewhat biased), this book by Noakes, http://www.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serious-Problem-Overhydration-Endurance/dp/145042497X. It will dramitically change your views on hydration and electrolyte suppliments. We have, and still are, being duped by the sports drink industry, especially the Gatorade Sports Science Institute (GSSI), and others who perform research funded by the marketing teams of this industry.

Peer-reviewed scientific studies show no evidence that short-term water and electrolyte deficiencies play a role in decreasing performance in mild to moderate activities. Glucose has a much bigger impact on performance.

Hike your own hike (HYOH), and don't worry too much about what has been drilled into your head over the last two decades by Garorade et al. Unless you over drink, and/or have some underlying medical condition, your body will take care of the rest.

The only thing that has increased over the last 50 years in exercise physiology is the number of cases of over hydration, almost all as a result of what we have been led to believe by the marketing gurus in the sports drink industry.

Disclaimer: These comments are my personal thoughts and beliefs and are not to be a substitute for consultation with your Primary Care Provider or other medical professional.

> So how many capsules do you really take?
Given that 99.9% of walkers have never even heard of these things, would it be too much to suggest that they are just another marketing exercise (aka scam)?

But, it's your wallet.

Cheers

In my experience, if I eat a balanced diet, I don't need additional electrolytes, vitamins, etc. The electrolyte supplements are nice insurance if you don't feel you are getting enough sodium, potassium, etc and I take them occasionally as extra insurance.

The best heat casualty class I ever took as an EMT was from a Grand Canyon park ranger. Per her class, they were treating heat casualties with fluids only to have the person drop again a mile or so down the trail. They realized that while they were replacing the fluids, they weren't replacing the electrolytes. They became much more successful once they started feeding their patients those nuclear orange peanut butter crackers.

I'm sure the Noakes book is interesting and that I should read it but I'm skeptical. I've dealt with many dozens of heat casualties who were hypokalemic/natremic and dehydrated but I've personally only known of two people (both dead) who dropped from drinking too much water. They were two Army SFAS candidates and the word was that they were drinking upwards of five gallons of water per day. The original report was that they died of water toxicity but follow up reports indicated it was lethal hypokalemia/natremia.

I monitor myself by keeping my urine a very pale yellow. Once I'm drinking to where it's perfectly clear, I find that I'm flushing electrolytes too quickly and start cramping. Too dark and I start suffering mild dehydration symptoms.

Thanks for the replies. I've never really used electrolyte supplements before except for throwing in a few packages of powdered mixes on some earlier trips, which I'd drink at the end of the day. But since they weigh a bit I've stopped using them. I've also not ever "bonked" from loss of salts, as far as I know. But I like the idea of these capsules because they're so light weight and, again, hiking at altitude over miles in summer suggests electrolyte loss.

I never add salt to my food or eat potato chips etc. so I'm not exactly swimming in the stuff to begin with.

By the way, by "tons of water" I mean a liter an hour while hiking, and more at camp. Given how difficult it is to filter water while backpacking, I think that de-hydration is a bigger issue than drinking too much water, for me at least. The color of my pee confirms this.

Greg: thanks for the link. There is a lot of good info there. I am surprised at the low levels of minerals and salts in these capsules. I know, maybe it's to make you take more. But again, maybe you don't want to absorb too much at once while still exercising?

Another recent thread was about a 50 mile or so day hike with a huge elevation gain/loss. Some experienced posters there advocated electrolytes. It's sort of what got me thinking.

Rex, it sure looks like these capsules help you. I'm going to try them.

"Given that 99.9% of walkers have never even heard of these things, would it be too much to suggest that they are just another marketing exercise (aka scam)?"

+1

I like Sqwincher lite kwik sticks.
They arent heavy at all. These are about 0.1 oz each. I use a couple per day.

Makes water taste better, like gatorade. Gets rid of AM chlorine taste. I drink more when I use them.

doesnt hurt I can get them from work either.

> by "tons of water" I mean a liter an hour while hiking, and more at camp
Blimey!!!!
Sue and I might drink 2 – 3 litres per day, total, while walking. We feel just fine thank you.
OK – another litre each in the really hot Australian summer.

Cheers

Here is an excellent summary of losses due to sweat.

Arnie Baker is a Doc, and a cyclist. He’s been doing this stuff for a long time.

I personally don’t think that with general hiking electrolyte loss is much of an issue.
But it will be if you are doing the JMT as a 5 day Ultra. Or the Rae Lakes Loop in a day.

YMMV

Whether or not someone needs electrolytes will depend greatly on the type of trip they are doing. I would agree that the vast majority of hikers don't need any special foods or supplements. But many that go out and do higher mile or under more extreme conditions will get benefit from electrolytes. I used to get major leg cramps every night prior to taking electrolyte capsules. If I take them I never get them. On my thru hike I had cramps two nights….the two nights I ran out.

Again, thanks for your responses.

Roger: yeah, a liter an hour is what I decided I'd like to aim for this season; I've never actually achieved that. But many consider that kind of water intake to be standard in the conditions that a hiker in the Sierra encounters. I'll take your point that it may be overkill. On your side, however: 2-3 liters per day, total? That seems a bit low. Anyway, it's not a competition. I'm older than you and maybe hike at higher elevations; not as fit, although I'm not a schlub. Maybe this accounts for the difference. Older, less fit bodies doubtless require more water than you and your mate.

I by no means am doing endurance hikes. And as I wrote in my earlier posts, I've never really bonked from salt loss. I just thought, for $8.25 for a bottle, these electrolyte capsules might be a good deal. Rex has certainly found them to be helpful.
Others on this forum have written in their favor.

Here's an excerpt from the article Greg referenced:

"For aerobic-endurance athletes, it is reasonable to plan on an
intake of up to a maximum of one gram (1,000 milligrams) of
sodium per liter of fluid loss. This is about one-half teaspoon of salt.
Cyclists may have a relatively easy time ingesting sodium
snacks. Triathletes can ingest salt snacks while cycling. Runners tend
to have finished their event before trouble with sodium sets in.

Walkers, in the heat for many hours,are the most at risk, especially
if they rely only on gels and water for their event nutrition.
Here is another reason for consuming salt: It helps the body
rehydrate."

Again, I'm not an athlete in an event, just a regular backpacker. Still maybe a couple of capsules weighing about .008 oz per day may help me feel better. Maybe not! My wallet will survive.

Greg, I'm curious as to whether water loss through breathing is taken into account in this study. It's hard to picture a liter of sweat, but if you include water loss through breathing as well, it adds up.

Thanks, Greg, for Baker's summary. It is indeed a nice one.

It's not hard to see why some people may "need" some type of electrolyte supplementation while others wouldn't.

A liter/hour of water is a *lot* of water, similar to what competitive cyclists might consume during a race. If that much volume is being lost in sweat, that's going to be a lot of sodium to replace – it's not hard to imagine getting too little sodium unless consuming some salty foods.

IMO, key to Baker's summary recommendation wrt potassium is the consumption of real food. If I eat 500 calories worth of dried fruit, that's ~ 1.5 grams of potassium. 500 calories of nuts, about 1/2 gram of potassium. Together, about as much potassium as 30 Salt Stick tablets.

People who don't eat real food (during race-pace activities or for whatever other reasons) can easily *not* be getting enough potassium (or possibly other things that might matter), so it's easy to see why they might need tabs to replace some of what's missing.

Cheers,

Bill S.

PS (as edit) – if those nuts were unsalted, then the fruit and nuts might have provided as little as 20 *milligrams* of sodium, 1/10 the amount of a single salt stick capsule! And if that's how you ate for an extended period in hot conditions, you'd be in trouble before too long. OTOH, if your 500 calorie snack was 1 1/2 ramen noodle packs with the flavor packets, you got ~ 2 grams of sodium, or about ten salt sticks' worth. (I'm doing a lot of rounding here, so if you want precision, you know what to do.) Real food doesn't tend to have much sodium, unless salt has been added. That's why the mountain goats will follow you.

"IMO, key to Baker's summary recommendation wrt potassium is the consumption of real food. If I eat 500 calories worth of dried fruit, that's ~ 1.5 grams of potassium. 500 calories of nuts, about 1/2 gram of potassium. Together, about as much potassium as 30 Salt Stick tablets."

ahhh, …the light goes on.

"…I'm curious as to whether water loss through breathing is taken into account in this study."

I don't have a clue. Google is your friend. But whatever you find is probably irrelevant in terms of how YOU handle hydration.

As noted above, urine color is a good indicator, as is frequency. If you are peeing clear, you are probably drinking to much. If peeing dark and infrequently, then not enough. Adjust accordingly.

This is the "get to know your body" part of training. We are all unique when it comes to hydration, electrolytes, fuel, function, and emotion.

"…I'm curious as to whether water loss through breathing is taken into account in this study."

He was focused on the electrolyte balance, so he didn't need to look at breathing per se. Water is lost through breathing, but electrolyte loss is negligible.

If you want to look at overall fluid balance, then you have to take into account losses through breathing, too.

Cheers,

Bill S.

Interesting, I thought we were aiming at clear urine. That's why I thought I was under-hydrated: yellow urine. Good news if yellow is mellow.

"Interesting, I thought we were aiming at clear urine. That's why I thought I was under-hydrated: yellow urine."

If you google urine color chart, you'll find a number of reference charts for urine color and hydration. I recommend looking at several of them – there's quite a range, IIRC even among those that purport to be based on the same original source. Color reproduction on the web can be a little tricky.

Note that urine appearance can also be affected by diet and supplements (including vitamins), and if you're not already familiar with the difference between color and clarity, be sure to look into that, too. Clear is not the same thing as colorless.

Best,

Bill S.

On a recent 3 day trip here in SOuthren Oregon ( peal temps ranging till 80-85F ) I felt severe headache on day One. For Second adn Third day, I started I took 2 salt stick tablets and felt fine with appropriate hydration.

"Still maybe a couple of capsules weighing about .008 oz per day may help me feel better. Maybe not! My wallet will survive."

Why not add 1/4 tsp of Mortons Lite Salt to each liter of water consumed? It supplies ~280 mg of sodium and 350 mg of potassium. An 8 oz canister costs around $2. This method will allow your wallet to not only survive, but thrive. ;o)

“Why not add 1/4 tsp of Mortons Lite Salt to each liter of water consumed? It supplies ~280 mg of sodium and 350 mg of potassium.”

Be careful with high-potassium formulas:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1364/can-salt-substitute-kill-you

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/salt-substitutes/

“Check with your doctor before trying a potassium-based salt substitute. Most people can tolerate extra potassium, and actually need more of this mineral. But extra potassium can be dangerous for people who have trouble flushing out any excess or who are taking medications that can increase potassium levels in the bloodstream. This includes people with diabetes or kidney disease, those who have had a blocked urinary flow, or those taking a potassium-sparing diuretic, an ACE inhibitor, or an angiotensin-receptor blocker.”

The straight dope article is ridiculous.

Soups and such flavored with sea salt have the same hidden problem: salts other than sodium chloride and consequently higher levels of K, Mg, etc.

/OT kidney health aside

Of course people with health issues should always consult with a doctor — if you can find a good one.

But in the context of backpacking, where one can perspire a lot of salts and minerals, the lite salt will probably be safe for most people. Now taking it everyday while living a couch potato life is not good.

"Be careful with high-potassium formulas:"

350 mg of K X perhaps 3 liters of water/day = high K?