help with new sleeping bag

I don't think you could go wrong with either a Western Mountaineering or Montbell. You might want to look at a Feathered Friends or an Integral Designs as well. The Badger is cool because it has more wiggle room and is not claustrophobic. The Montbell offers room due to the stretchy material they use so you still have room. Both bags are light and both are high quality. The other two companines I mentioned make great sleeping bags also.

I personally just bought the Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina to replace my old REI bag. I'm not sure if your looking for in terms of down vs synthetic. I chose this synthetic bag because most of my trips involve canoing. It weighs in at about 2lbs 14 oz, which certainly isn't ultralight but light enough for me. Another cool feature is the welded seams, these both eliminate cold spots as it does not need to be baffled, and also helps it's water resistant properties because there are no stitchings. It packs down to about 7 x 12" however i do not use the stuff sack that came with the bag. It has a 15 degree rating, but i've read reviews that people have slept comfortably in 0 to -5 degree weather with minimal layers. It's fill, thermicmicro, is similar to polarguard delta in it's heat retention and structure, however it is put in the bag all intertwined and loose (think spaghetti) while polarguard delta is put in the bag in sheets with a shingle effect. As a result thermicmicro packs down smaller and eliminates cold spots. As far as the shell, it has the ripstop nylon (the little boxes contain rips inside their own box preventing tearing) with a dwr treatment, it beads water pretty well but it will absorb water if left in a puddle. Hope this helps.
pike

I have researched the new ultralamina. Sound pretty good. I like the dual side zip idea but they are to short for me. I prefer a full zip so the bag can be used as a quilt. Let us know how the bag works.

While I have no direct experience with the Kelty bag you own, my estimation is that you'll be substantially warmer in either a Montbell or Western Mountaineering bag than your Kelty, rated at the same temperatures. Montbell tends to be right on with their temp ratings and WM tends to be conservative estimating comfort ranges, whereas Kelty has a rep as being 'optamistic' in rating their bags.

I've used Kelty's Light Year down bag rated to 25 degrees that I wouldn't trust at or below freezing without additional insulation of some sort. On the flip side of that coin, my WM Ultralight, rated to 20 degrees, has kept me warm at that temp and just under with just a lightweight baselayer and fleece cap.

Western Mountaineering….enough said.

How do you guys feel about the shell that comes on the WM ultralite bags versus their microfiber shell? I have read good things about the microfiber but I would have to get either the box stitched 35deg caribou (which is very lightweight) or go all the way down to the 15 deg bagdger. Just haven't heard as much about how the ultralite shell performs.

The extremelite fabric works well. You do have to be more careful with it, just as you would with the Montbell Ballistic Air Light nylon. If you are lucky enough to live in an aread where a mountaineering shop carries Western Mountaineering and Montbell you can actually climb into the bags at the store to see which one you like the most. You won't go wrong with either one.

You could always get a 30 degree bag and supplement with a lightweight quilt over the top in winter months. Granted more gear required, but you should be more comfortable in all seasons that way.

I've never used a WM bag with a microfiber shell. The Extremelite fabric is great. Decent water repellancy, breathable, fairly down-proof, and cleans well. I really don't care if its fragile or not (it doesn't seem to be exceedingly fragile) becasue I don't plan on wearing my bag while I hike. Given proper percautions are taken, a sleeping bag has to be one of the hardest pieces of gear to damage. Buy WM Extremelite series with confidence if the bags fit you. comfortably.

Thanks for all the input guys. I am getting a Montbell UL burrow bag #3 (synthetic) for my son to use on the trip. It is 2.1 lbs and should be perfect for him. Also I will be able to see if I like the Montbell bag since we don't have a dealer in our area. We do have a WM dealer and with all the positive comments to this point I am leaning that way.

There was a thread posted back on 2/12/2007 called "Western Mountaineering Versalite and Condensation". Go check it out if you haven't already as I think there are some good comments on the shell material differences.

Here is one of my posts from that thread for your convenience:

"I've been using a Versalite for a couple of years. I also own and use a WM Caribou. In general I have noticed that the Versalite seems to absorb condensation a little more readily than the Caribou. On a typical moring where I get condenstation (usually that's every morning here in the SE) the foot and facehole area will be damp to the touch. I can't confirm whether or not this is getting the down wet. I do know that hanging the bag out for a short amount of time in the sun seems to dry it out. I mention the Caribou because its shell is made out of the microfibre material that WM uses, and it seems to be much more water resistant. I normally can shake off most of the condensation in the morning. The Versalite does have a DWR so it repels some of the condensation, but if the moisture is allowed to sit there for a while it will soak through the shell material. So anyway, with the Versalite I have just come to accept that it is more prone to getting damp due to the shell fabric being less water resistant."

I personally own and use 3 WM bags (Versalite, Ultralite and Caribou), and I love em.

I own two WM bags and a Montbell. You can't go wrong with either choice.

BTW, WM Extremelite = Pertex Quantum nylon. The best fabric in the business. I've confirmed this with the WM factory.

While I had them on the phone I asked about the abbreviation "SMF". The MF is their polyester Microfiber (alternative to Extremelite). Makes sense. But what does the S mean? That stands for "Super" which is their deluxe collar. I have no idea why they combine those unrelated thoughts into one abbreviation.

BTW I also own a Caribou and my wife has an Ultralite and we love them. I've been comfortable in my Caribou for a huge range: on the high side, 60 degrees in the desert; on the low side, 20 degrees snow camping in March. 20 degrees was really pushing a 35 degree bag, but in a tent, wearing my Montbell UL down pants, jacket and booties (all of which I needed for camp anyway) it did the trick! The versality comes from the full zip and the 64" width.

Scott, You have both WM and montbell bags. How does the water resistance, comfort and accuracy of temp ratings compare?

I own two WM bags, a Caribou and a AlpinLite Super. As mentioned above the Caribou has a huge range of useful temperature. I have used it down to the low 20s during a summer trip to Yosemite and although it wasn't the most restful night of sleep I was very impressed. The reason I went with the Caribou was because of the added durability and water repellency of MF shell. I spoke with someone at WM who indicated that the MF tends to be a little more breathable because less calendaring is needed on the MF to make it down-proof (calendaring is a process where they apply heat to the fabric to flatten out the threads to reduce the size of the gaps between threads). I also listened to a podcast where the owner of WM, Gary Schaezlein, was interviewed and described the MF in a similar way.

My summer bag tends to take the most abuse of all my bags, and is usually paired with the skimpiest shelters I own so it was more important to me that the bag be a bit more durable. I also like the Pertex Quantum fabric that is used in the AlpinLite (and a 15 degree NorthFace I own), although I have found that it tends to wet out much more easily than the MF. As was described in another post above, I tend to get damp patches near my face. The down seems to only slightly damp, never to the point where I felt it was compromised in any way.

Another note about the cut of these bags – they are both cut using WM’s wider pattern which I love. In warmer weather I can’t stand a tight fit in a sleeping back (I am a side and stomach sleeper, but very average sized) and these bags give you some room to stretch out. In colder weather the extra girth gives you a little room to layer your clothing inside, extending your comfort range quite a bit. This is just a personal preference and I know a lot of people that prefer the greater efficiency of a closer cut. I also prefer full zippers for added flexibility in warmer weather, and because it lets me couple two bags together when I can talk my wife into accompanying me on a trip.