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ZPacks Hexamid questions


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  • #1982519
    Michael Gillenwater
    BPL Member

    @mwgillenwater

    Locale: Seattle area

    Some processes are just to complex for simple reasoning, and so are only really answered empirically. Anyone have a wind tunnel in their garage?

    #1982660
    Jason Elsworth
    Spectator

    @jephoto

    Locale: New Zealand

    Sorry Jason, I just meant I didn't see HOW you'd use a second pole with the hexamid solo because of how it's designed.

    Jennifer -Sorry if I came across as a bit snippy. You are quite right I am not sure if it would really work in practice. I have only had a quick look on one occasion. Next time I pitch the Hexamid I will have another look. The whole idea might turn out to be total pants as the British say.

    Ian – have you seen the Hexamid long.

    #1982681
    Matthew Reese
    BPL Member

    @bradktn

    To add to my original list of questions, Does anyone have experience with the Black Diamond Z poles and the Hexamid Solo Plus? I'd hate to have to change poles, but with a short tip section and a fixed mini-basket, I'm not sure there is enough purchase for a pole jack. Mine measure 120cm, about 47 inches.

    #1982685
    Bradley Attaway
    Member

    @attaboybrad

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    I've used the Hexamid Twin with my Z-Poles with great success. I use the 130cm poles so I drop the handle down (as though I were collapsing the poles, but without separating the sections) which gives me a perfect height for the front pole.

    The recommended front pole height is 122cm for the twin (several inches shorter than the solo plus), so your fully extended pole should work just fine. Weight penalty for the twin over solo plus is under an ounce, and the cost doesn't get bumped much.

    That extra space might be worth the half ounce and Jackson even without having to buy new poles.

    Also, to answer Ian's question on size: I'm 6'5" and have shared the hexamid twin several nights with other adults of various more normal sizes. I wouldn't mind if the shelter were a bit longer, but it's never been a problem for me.

    #1982687
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    "Ian – have you seen the Hexamid long."

    I have. It looks like a tedious tarp to pitch but that's probably just misperception on my part as it's only one more step than the Twin.

    #1982711
    Jason Elsworth
    Spectator

    @jephoto

    Locale: New Zealand

    It looks like a tedious tarp to pitch

    That's why I didn't go for one.

    #1982727
    Mark Verber
    BPL Member

    @verber

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    > It looks like a tedious tarp to pitch

    It took me 3 set-ups one afternoon to master the hexamid… mostly around what was the best angle / length for the pole. Now I can pitch it in under 2 minutes so long as the ground with take stakes. Now that I have used it for awhile, I typically get the stake position right first time (no need to move them to get the hexamid taut). I have also found the hexamid one of the easiest shelter to pitch tautly.

    –Mark

    #1982732
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    Mark, they're talking about the long, not the regular Hexamid.

    #1982738
    Matt Weaver
    Spectator

    @norcalweaver

    Locale: PacNW

    "I've always been enamored with these two tarps but I was under the impression after reading a few BPL threads that at 6'3" and using an Exped Synmat, I'd be too tall for these two tarps (possibly ok solo in the Twin.) Stick's Blog's Facebook Page (that's a mouthful) recently shared a picture of two adults and three children squeezing into the Solo Plus which has given me an opportunity to reconsider these shelters. Anyone using this tarp who is my height or taller care to weigh in on this? I’d occasionally have one of my kids or a dog in the shelter with me"

    I'm 6'4", couple hundred pounds, I find the solo to be an excellent fit for me with my xlite pad. Spacious no, but good fit for me and my small amount of gear yes.

    #1982743
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    This was really informative. Thanks for sharing your experiences with this shelter.

    #1982787
    William Chilton
    BPL Member

    @williamc3

    Locale: Antakya

    I have the Hexamid Long and the Twin. I used to have the Solo+. To be honest, they're all pretty much the same in terms of how easy they are to set up. If anything, the Twin is a little more difficult than the others, as the height and positioning of the rear pole has quite an effect on the pitch, plus the rear pole is the also the centre rear tie-out, and in my experience, it is getting the balance correct between the front and rear centre tie-outs which is the most important factor in getting a good pitch with all the Hexamids.
    With the Long, it's true that if you're using trekking poles for all three supports, then it means you have to adjust all three pole to the correct length. On the other hand, if you have three trekking poles, then it means that there are at least two of you to share the adjusting. If you are using the carbon fibre poles for the sides, then there is very little difference between the Solo+ and the Long in terms of ease of pitching.
    The Long gives an incredible amount of extra usable internal space over the Twin and the Solo+.
    One question I have about both the Solo+ and the Long is which is the best way to orient them in the wind. Conventional wisdom seems to be to face the Hexamids with their backs to the wind. The Solo+ and the Long, however, seem to me to offer much less profile to the wind if they are oriented sideways. Any comments?

    #1982811
    M B
    BPL Member

    @livingontheroad

    The hexamid is a minimal shelter, not a tent.

    One thing I do like about it, is that the pole is inside the sleeping are, not outside.

    Thats because I actually can hang my pack from it, with my unused gear and even foodbag in it. Keeps it out of way in a rodent free space.

    I can think of several ways to greatly improve the hexamid. Problem is, they all add weight. The goal of the shelter is to be as light as possible. There ARE compromises made.

    #1982879
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    "The hexamid is a minimal shelter, not a tent."

    I think it's just a matter of semantics. Zpacks labels the version with a net as a tent to distinguish it from the tarp version.

    #1982884
    Joel Benford
    Spectator

    @morte66

    Locale: Surrey flatlands, England

    As a prospective hexamid owner, I wonder if anybody would like to comment on my impression of it:

    In terms of shelter, the mesh Hexamid (mexamid?) seems a lot like mesh inner + fly tents. It'll keep most rain and snow out unless they can get around corners, which they occasionally can. It'll keep most condensation off, but not perfectly. It keeps bugs out. It won't keep wind out of your sleeping bag like a fabric inner+outer tent, or a whatever+bivy. It won't raise the temperature like 2 layers of fabric, which may be a good or bad thing.

    In this, it seems about the same as a Skyscrape or Rainbow or Solomid + inner. The differences are space, vestibules, convenience of egress, and so on.

    The four tents above seem quite different when compared to each other. But they're very similar when you throw in 8×5 tarps, Hilleberg Aktos, eVent bivvies, hammocks et al.

    #1982911
    M B
    BPL Member

    @livingontheroad

    It wont block wind, that would compromise ventilation and lead to condensation.

    It will be prone to rain splatter and spray intruding on your sleeping area, especially near the front corners where the beak is attached and there is no overhang.

    Rain will run down the mesh, and if you touch it, you will get wet, or your groundcloth will, or your sleeping bag will.

    It is a small shaped tarp, with a little bug netting attached. You must be comfortable with water dripping or running only inches from your gear.

    The netting is fairly durable as a floor, and protects the cuben or other lightwt groundsheet somewhat.

    It has fixed guyline lenghts, and shape. It doesnt adapt well to non-flat surfaces due to this. It doesnt raise or lower well either. You can accomplish a bit, by wrapping the guylines around the stake to effectively shorten them.

    The tarp is only a couple inches from your face in lying position unless you prop up the guyout with a stick for more room, like the extended version does.

    The shape at top where mesh is under tension, and the zippers dont work well together. It takes two hands to work the zippers across the curve at the top, which you must do to get the opening open to go thru, and to close again. I left a gap one night recently, and had a mouse come in mine . They can climb all over the mesh very very well.

    #1982916
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    "It wont block wind, that would compromise ventilation and lead to condensation."

    Certainly the mesh parts won't, the cuben parts will (which is most of the 'above ground' part). I also use a solo plus groundsheet, which allows me to get more coverage when needed, but roll it back for more ventilation.

    "It has fixed guyline lenghts,"

    Well, only if you choose to use fixed guyline lengths. Joe also sells lineloc 3 adjusters on loops, 1.8 grams each, that you can use instead. I used to have them on one of my Hexamids.

    "The tarp is only a couple inches from your face in lying position unless you prop up the guyout with a stick for more room, like the extended version does."

    Or if you're only 5'8", like me. While I've never measured, it's more than a couple of inches away from my face when I'm lying down. I'm always amazed at how roomy it is when I use it.

    Agree with the rest of your post though.

    #1983166
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    “It wont block wind, that would compromise ventilation and lead to condensation.”

    I believe the netting does “compromise ventilation” decreasing the free flow of air and, with other factors present, resulting in condensation. A two-wall shelter, on the other hand, with a tight pitch, leaves the fly unobstructed. UNLESS BUGS are a factor forget the netting and buy the plain o Hexamid with a beak.

    Not wanting to sound dogmatic, this opinion is based on personal experience with a sil-nylon shelter similar in design to the Hexamid with netting.

    wet tent2
    WetInside

    #1983182
    M B
    BPL Member

    @livingontheroad

    I would do without the netting under me, before I would do without the netting around me.

    I agree it reduces ventillation a bit. But the point is, you have it and do not pitch it tight to ground, so that you have ventillation and minimize condensation. The result is succeptibility to some rain spray and splatter. Its a tradeoff.

    Just things to be aware of in such a shelter. More than one person has been lured by the low weight, only to find that they are really a tent person.

    #1983271
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    I've been in some nasty wind and rain in my cuben hexamid (with a restless 70# pup) and never had even a hint of splatter come near me. I actually use the twin groundsheet with my solo plus to give me a bit of extra floor room with the dog, and I can quite easily block any sideways rain that might want to come my way.

    Granted, I have no experience with a true tarp, but frankly I kind of disagree with most of your post.

    I'm 5'7" and the dog pushes me where he wants me (trying some sil dots on my pad to see if that makes it harder on him to move me in the night…) and even with that bit of extra annoyance to contend with I've not had the wall "inches" from my face, or had me or my stuff splattered with water/rain. There is more than adequate room in there to protect my stuff (I push my pack up against the wall of the bathtub groundsheet to help support it) and keep my gear in front of that. The beak has sheltered my shoes and CharlieDog's pack just fine.

    Frankly, using the hexamid with the net floor has just whetted my appetite for other tarp set ups. It's a great shelter…I just need to train the dog to understand the concept of morning condensation……

    #1983273
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    John, I'm sorry but I don't understand your comment about a 2 wall shelter leaving the fly unobstructed…while a single wall shelter like the hexamid does not??

    And I can't believe the netting restricts THAT much airflow that it makes any real difference. But please someone correct me if I'm wrong….

    #1983278
    Mark Verber
    BPL Member

    @verber

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    the netting does break the wind more than you would expect… but I have had less issues with my hexamid that other shelters which had approx the same ventilation made from sol-nylon or spinnaker. I don't know why, but cuben in my experience is less likely to condensate.

    –mark

    #1983279
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    "And I can't believe the netting restricts THAT much airflow that it makes any real difference. But please someone correct me if I'm wrong…."

    Yup, you are wrong. Netting significantly restricts airflow compared to no netting.

    #1983293
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Jennifer: assuming your two-walled shelter is pitched taught, there should be space between the fly and the mesh/nylon inner tent thus allowing air to circulate and reduce trapped moisture and other factors giving rise to condensation. As other have since pointed out, with the single wall with a mesh border to keep mosquitoes at bay, air circulation is blocked keeping warm moist air inside.

    My Hexamid is the plain solo with a beak and I agree with you that it provides good protection against wind and rain. Also our transition from enclosed shelter seems to be quite parallel with whetted appetite towards a plain tarp.

    Mark: Same experience as you with cuben and no condensation. Quite the contrast with Sil-nylon as shown above.

    HexamidSolo

    #1983296
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    I suspect the only way to truly compare the condensation that accumulates with a silnylon shelter vs a cuben shelter is to:

    A.) use the identical design of shelter in both fabrics and

    B.) use both shelters in identical weather conditions at the same geographic area at the same time.

    Otherwise stating that cuben fabric will accumulate less condensation than silnylon is pure conjecture.

    Anyone have the ability to test this?

    John, your WO is pitched low and has perimeter netting. Your Hexamid lacks the netting and is pitched high. This would help to define the difference in condensation management.

    #1983312
    Joel Benford
    Spectator

    @morte66

    Locale: Surrey flatlands, England

    Thanks for the replies to my sub-query.

    As somebody who's never used a light solo shelter, I find myself wondering what the hell is the difference beteween a tarp and a tent anyway. As best I can tell, a "tent" has a zipped entry and a "tarp" doesn't. Which doesn't seem overly important.

    Or maybe it's a state of mind — "You must be comfortable with water dripping or running only inches from your gear", the key word being "comfortable. Tarps are for people who don't need belt and braces.

    When I look at shelters, I'm looking for this:
    – It's for use in Britain (seems quite like the PNW), for 3 season conditions. I'm partial to coastal areas. I'm worried about wind, rain, bugs, humidity, mud and snow in descending order.
    – One person, I'm six foot, and I'd like to use a 3" inch thick and 25" wide air matress. I'd like just enough head/elbow room to able to change clothes whilst sitting up.
    – Pitch/enter/exit/strike without getting rain on the inner/groundsheet.
    – Some sort of vestibule or equivalent, for things that will drip, so they don't drip on the groundsheet.
    – I don't use trekking poles as a matter of course, so poles count towards the weight.

    I *think* a Hexamid + mesh ticks most of the boxes, and it's very light. It's weak on the vestibule, but a Skyscrape and Solomid seem weaker. [Does that make them tarps? ;) ]

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