A McHale demo pack arrived today

" what was the preMcHale scenario that was so wretched that the expenditure seems justified. "

several unrememberable models of generic garbage, a Kelty and Three Dana's.
holes in my hips that blood ran out of and i could see stuff inside my body.
hip belt collapse at anything over a paltry 55#'s.
loads hanging on my shoulders until i got nerve damage.
—
so ; i bought a McHale. all the weight can be held on the hips. so now of course, i got nerve damage there too, but that's not the point.
that first McHale got tired and ratty, so i ordered another one. this newer (2005) one is lighter and better. it totes more than my body can carry over any distance, and it never ever ever breaks, bursts a seam, causes me grief, goes off on a direction of its own, or lets me down in any way.
if i put 80# in it, then it is heavy. but i can still carry it.
the component quality is the best can be had. more money will not help.
the thing spreads the load (and pain) out all over me, so no one particular part gets hammered excessively.
for some of us, ultimate reliability is a major issue. for others, not so much.
—
i go for a walk, let's say. my lady goes with me. she's been pretty sick these last few years and if/when she craps out, who's going to step up and carry her kit ? me, that's who. if i had a pack not capable of helping others, i'd not be so able to drag them as far back into the bush. a McHale lets you pack piles of caca out of the American River Canyon.
a capable pack is a good thing.
—
does a big McHale make mass Go Away and magic like disappear ? no.
it makes mass manageable.
it makes mass do what it's told.
and it lets me get done, what i need to get done.
—
and Mchale is a WHAT expense ?? it's a grand. really … bfd.
cut off cable tv, wait a few months. and you'll soon have plenty enough for a new McHale , plus a better life to boot.
what does a trip cost ?
well, there's that $275 a day lost wages.
there's airfare to the north and back … 2.5k maybe..
there's other gear.
etc.
and WORSE. it's another of my Very Few years left.
a grand is nothing.
a packraft costs a grand.
a decent camera costs a grand.
two and half tents costs a grand.
if you have a wife, and she looks at new refrigerator, it's a grand. (more actually, with a modern wife)
a grand is less than half a 17" macbook pro.
some morons yearly give that (and More !!! ) to failed political parties. (pick one .. it matters not.)
$1000 … pfftt .. it's nothing.

There is still the matter of my horrible horrible website. But hey, I don't need one after that Peter! People just need a phone number!!!!

I appreciate the help I get from all of you. One way to look at it is that without the help in advertising, the packs would have to cost even more. That is just one reason they are so affordable!

So to summarize Peter. McHale may be a good value if you are carrying loads over 55# and $1000 is not considered a major expenditure.

Any other sweet spots?

I guess you did not see my post Malto. My packs are are just one of the multitudes of choices when buying something other than frameless. Any pack brand is better than frameless. Here is the post below;

" Hiking Malto, your question is more general that I think you see. Most of my customers come from a place where they have tried packs like the one you are using. Many people find that in many ways those packs are not satisfying. These people are on the rebound to find packs with more structure and better hipbelts. I can assure you that ALL of these people are not buying packs from me. Only a tiny portion of them do.

To be more fair to you, many of these people may decide to keep their frameless pack for certain trips, but realize they are not the best for everything. Again, they don't all rush to me. Obviously there are many pack makers that are kept in business. "

.

And then Malto does not even consider all of the people that spend $100.00 over and over again buying multiple packs. It's when you spend your candy money all at once that people call you stupid.

Stephen says,

" Not all Dans packs are 1000$, the one I have ordered will come in at around 600$ "

We better talk about that a little more. Haha! :>) I'm going to have to charge for some of these posts too.

.

Couple points.
1) I missed your post, it came in while I was typing.
2) it sounds like there is a segment of the market that needs heavy loads and you are uniquely suited to fill that market. How? You take the time to custom fit packs which is probably infinitely more important as the carry weight increases.
3) I hear the talk about durability but if I can get 5000+ miles out of a $175 MLD Burn then even at $600 I could buy 3+ burns. Conservatively your pack would have to last at least 20,000 miles before it financially makes sense to spend the $600+. ( I'm making the assumption that my Burn will fail at 7k which is highly conservative since I know folks that have exceeded this with the same pack.). Also, what percent of the hiking population will ever hike 20k miles or even for that matter 6-7000. Is the pack life really an issue or is it a justification? Or could it be that heavier weights would shred a pack like the Burn bringing it back to point 2, it is suited for folks with heavier loads.
4) as far as framed. I am 8 lb base. Even with 5 thru hiker days of food the pack wasn't even noticeable. (Beyond that it was for a day or two.). So again if frames are key then that also mainly applies to heavier carries which doesn't explain the following you get here on BPL where folks are in the lighter end of the spectrum.

PS, how many people actually wear out a pack vs. outgrow it or ingrow it (?) or just move on to a shiny toy?

Many sweet spots.

Neither of my packs were any where near $1000 ($500 to $700 IIRC). I have carried loads approaching 100 lbs in my LBP with as much comfort as can be expected, or hoped for, given the weight. I have also carried base weight loads of 10 to 13 lbs in my Bump, and just about everything in-between.

I have found my McHale packs to be a great value. Why? Here's a few reasons:

– Fit. My packs fit me, not a generic size chart. Never had a better fitting pack. Period. Ever. This includes packs from Gossamer Gear, Gregory, Kelty, Mystery Ranch, Badlands, Dana Design, Lowe, Jansport and probably some others I've forgotten.
– Materials. Tough to find some of the materials Dan offers in other packs. I requested a special material for my LBP that Dan had to order. Before it was used Dan tested it to make sure it met his requirements. Only then would he agree to use it.
– Innovations. Dan's waist belts and frame extensions are remarkable.
– Customization. I wanted my LBP to be able to haul loads up to 100 lbs for hunting trips. Dan upsized the frame stays, shoulder pads, waist belt, etc as needed to accommodate my request. I wanted to be able to use my Bump for LW trips. Dan built 2 waist belts for the pack (a standard foam belt and lightweight webbing belt). My Bump (and LBP as well) is completely customizable for my trips. Waist belts, frame stays, foam back support, hip belt pockets, top lid, water bottle pockets, accessory pouches, etc can all be deleted/added from the basic pack bag to create the custom system I need for any given trip/hike.

Malto, clearly you are not a candidate for a McHale Pack. I don't tend to do well with people that think all others should be just like them anyway.

That is what I was looking for. You have a need that I can clearly understand. Dan, don't ever claim everyone should do it my way, few would chose to. I'm trying to understand the appeal for your product.

I hike mostly off trail. The few folks who have done trips with me can tell you the terrain, scrub, catclaw, sliding down canyons and slopes, boulder scrambling and squeezing through rock cracks will soon make short work of most packs.

My kit is generally super light, other than winter. But when you hike for a week with water sources one day apart, base weight means nothing.

I shredded my first 2 light packs, and it got to the point where my gear dictated where I could hike. So I decided to get a pack that would go where I wanted to hike. So I bought a McHale LBP 36.

The LBP 36 is constructed 100% of full Dyneema to include the water bottle pockets, hip belt pockets, top lid, and shoulder strap pocket. It has a special harness in the top lid to carry a bear canister. No mesh pockets to catch or tear. The material is practically indestructible. The volume with all optional accessories and the roll top extended is 79L or ~4,800 cu in. That is 4,800 cu in of full Dyneema storage. I can configure it down to a tightly packed 39L or ~2,400 cu in. With the optional P&G bayonets and by-pass harness it is probably the best construction load lifter setup available today. The weight runs from 3 lbs 4 ounces to 4 lbs 9.5 ounces depending upon how I configure it. BTW, ease of configuring it is a huge plus for me. I don’t think there is much argument out there that a McHale is one of the best, if not the best, load carrying packs on the market. I think it is the best.

Lets compare this pack to the ULA Catalyst, which is considered a sturdy lightweight pack. It weighs 3 lbs, but uses mesh pockets with a volume of 1,400 cu in storage to get its total volume up to 4,600 cu in. Recommended max weight of the Catalyst is 40 lbs. 40 lbs is a walk in the park for a LBP. What about fit? The Catalyst comes in 4 sizes. A McHale is custom fitted — none of this “it sorta fits.” If I take all the accessories off the LPB, and don’t use the extension colar, the main bag is 39L, versus the Catalyst’s 42L main bag. Of course the Catalyst isn’t made from full Dyneema and doesn’t use 7075-T6 aluminum stays. The McHale stays don’t compress. McHale hip belts are legendary. The McHale will outlast, out carry, and out comfort the Catalyst. I am not dissing the ULA pack, I am comparing it as one of the most popular heavy hauler “light weight” packs to a McHale of similar size. My McHale is almost 3 years old and has seen a lot of use. It looks brand new and not a single stitch is out of place.

After a year of use I found my LBP 36 was too big for many trips of 2-3 days. So I got a smaller McHale, a Bump. This is made from green Spectra grid material and the circumference is small so it is less likely to catch of stuff that will damage it. The bottom is full Dyneema as are the shoulder straps. All the pockets (lid, water bottle, hip, and shoulder strap) are made from green Spectra — NOT mesh. It is not a $1,000 pack. The construction is robust. It carries 35 or 40 lbs with ease. After 12 hour days with this kind of weight, at the end of the day when you take it off, there is no such thing as sore hips or shoulders. Extended, the main bag almost the same size as a Catalyst (3,000 cu in for the Bump versus the Catalyst’s 3,200 cu). When you add every single option to my Bump, it weighs 3 lbs 4.92 ounces versus 3 lbs for the Catalyst. The water bottle pockets can carry a 64 ounce Gatorade bottle. I don’t think anyone would say the Catalyst is better built than a McHale Bump. My Bump has the same hip belt as the LBP and twin aluminum stays. It too is custom fitted. Last week I had no fear about checking it on a flight to and from Calif/Philadelphia. Would anyone even chance checking a Catalyst?

Both McHale packs can easily transport a couple gallons of water and all my gear/food. I will pass away before these packs wear out. I will never need to buy another pack. My zPacks Zero is starting to wear, and it is almost 2 years old, and when it dies I will use the Bump on all short light trips, which I do most of the time these days – relegating the Zero to mostly day hikes. I am not hard on gear, I have a 40+ year old Kelty that is still kicking.

There a probably a lot of people here who hike more than me, but my packs get lots of trail miles each year.

Okay, McHales aren’t for everyone. If you aren’t interested in one, I am not trying to sell you on them.

I hope I didn’t make any mistakes on the measurements for both packs. I quickly threw this post together. If anyone wants more about my packs click on the links below:

McHale LBP 36

McHale Bump

Well Malto, even Russel is outside of what most people get them for. To say people buy these little packs to carry heavy loads like that would not really cover the spectrum. Most people like to think about carrying 30 lbs nicely. Then, I guess there is the reality where people want to go light, but then shit happens and they have to help a friend out or something and discover their pack can carry more. I will have to do something about that!

I think the reality is that to carry 30 lbs. nicely, a pack cannot be at it's limit to do that. It has to have a margin. This is the way most things are. You don't build a bridge to barely be able to carry the traffic crossing it. There are other factors that must be considered.

Nick,
You should be Dans marketing manager! That was probably the best summary I have seen, I was hoping you would weigh in. Makes sense for the 35 lb load. Certainly would take my Burn up that heavy, at least for more than an hour or two. You are trusting with baggage claim, I hear they will testing bear canisters in the future. You were in my neck of the woods, go anywhere good?

PS I don't think pack should be made of cuben, at least not yet. I have seen what they look like after only a couple thousand miles.

You're probably right Dan; My weights are probably at the ends of the spectrum. I primarily do day hikes, LW backpacking and backpack archery hunting. For the first 2 activities my base weight is usually 13 lbs or under. For hunting my base weight starts at 40 lbs and goes up. Way way way up if packing out a harvested animal. :-(

I'll open a beer to that!

Malto,

On most trips my Bump is around 2 lbs. With my other gear (which is where I save weight) my base is usually around 5lbs. So it would make Abela proud that I am SUL :)

It is not about load carrying capacity but durability, comfort at any weight, and a pack that is balanced and secure under all conditions. But like I said, they are not for everyone. I am done with frameless packs — too many compromises for me.

When I see the multiple frameless packs people sell on Gear Swamp sometimes I think to myself, they could have purchased one perfect pack for what they spent. Also, with Dan's demo system you know what you are getting and how it will fit you.

One thing that should be mentioned is the education I got about packs during the demo process. I had been hiking for over 40 years using external, internal and frameless packs. I thought I knew a lot. I was wrong. At one point I think Dan might have gotten a little frustrated with me. He finally told me to turn the demo inside out and walked me through how it was built, what the components were supposed to do, and how things worked. I have a lot of curvature in my back and he made me do a lot of adjusting to the stays. In the end I did what he asked after I learned how a pack is supposed to work. I was thrilled with the final product. I guess I am an advocate because of all the personal attention I received — that was definitely a new experience.

At the end of the day, we spend more time wearing our house (the backpack) than any other piece of gear other than shoes. An extra pound for a great pack is a good investment in weight. These days we can trim weight other places and have a pack that serves us well under all conditions and will last a long time.

Last week I hiked up to Bake Oven Knob and then hiked the AT well past Bear Rocks. Sure appreciated the Bump hiking around Bear in the rain. Eventually I came back cross country and on some old dirt roads. Felt pretty good about that section until I came home and read the thread about Lyme disease. I am watching closely for problems from the two ticks that atacked me. Okay, I can't resist… here is the bump at the beginning of the hike :)

After that censorship thread last week and the responses I'm seeing here, i'm very afraid of ever considering a McHale pack. Why?

Because I support this forum.

I assume the wait time on a pack must be several weeks because the marketing strategy of attacking, literally attacking, anyone who disputes your product or model on a forum meant to educate people is almost a full-time job.

Maybe your customers kiss feet because they have nice packs. I find you, Dan, to be unhelpful, abrasive, and completely counter to what this community fosters. You're one of the worst voices i've heard for backpacking.

When someone asks a question about your packs in a cogent way, like Malto did, you have two options. Answer helpfully and, in the process, possibly garner several new customers who had similar skepticisms, or answer in a snarky, sarcastic manner meant to ridicule the curious party in front of other backpackers. If I saw you do that on the trail, kick someone for having an opinion, you'd be quickly ignored.

I really wish you'd show a little courtesy instead of using this forum as your opportunity to demean people.

It's not good, Dan.

I mean, jeez, i'm not a businessman but it seems to me that being exclusively positive and ignoring doubters like most cottage manufacturers do here is SMART.

Whining at everyone who doubts your packs is useless. Everyone knows you make good packs. Stop bullying.

Nick, I have a big round puffy spot on my ribcage – probably an inch across and might have a 3/8" to 1/2" rise to it. It's from a tick that got me over 45 years ago though. A Piru Creek tick!

Lighten up Max. I came on this thread correcting somebody that said I charged too much for shipping, and it was all uphill from there. I think you might be reading too much into this stuff.

I'd lighten up if it wasn't uphill every single time I saw your name. Maybe I just don't have the coveting instinct everyone else seems to have.

I'm just annoyed.

I am with Max here.
You have some great supporters of your products…why not let them address these issues on the forum, at least in the beginning, without you jumping in immediately?

Other than the one short post about Malto, which is not half as bad as his post about my website making his head hurt, this post is all on the level. It's too bad the OP has deleted his posts. No telling what happened there. He probably didn't want his thread to go bad. I didn't make it go bad. Herman, Ure, Malto can take some responsibility for that. You have made it worse than anyone has. Max, when I used the term uphill I meant that in a positive sense. Uphill as in ascending to something higher.

Look, you're a reasonable guy. You even answered Malto in a reasonable way.

Why that had to come after a swift kick is beyond me.

It's good business to foster this community. Consider the echo your experience and profile has when you speak here, and use it responsibly, and you'll have my respect.