Sub – 2lbs lightweight internal frame pack — need market update

"I love the design philosophy of UL packs, but there aren't many out there that I would really consider "do-it-all" packs, if doing it all involves carrying more traditional weights. As a minimalist who lives in a hundred-square-foot house, I would really like to have one pack instead of three…"

Nah, just store one pack inside the other, then it only takes up the space of one pack!

Tom,

I've only tried the Ohm 1.0. The Ohm 2.0 is better, but it still exhibits the two problems I mentioned.

Jennifer,

Maybe the Gorilla works different for you, but it carried absolutely awful compared to other better-built suspension systems that I've tried. And yes, I did own the Gorilla briefly (the latest one).

Here's a simple test I use to determine pack load transfer:

1) Load the pack to some of the heavier loads you'll carry.
2) Adjust it to best fit your body.
3) Loosen the shoulder straps

If the very act of loosening the shoulder straps causes the pack to rotate away from your body, it's a very poor design. The better the suspension system, the more you can move around before the back begins to rotate away from your body. A pack with a curvature built into the pack and good stay and hipbelt attachments will balance the load more forward and distribute some of the load across the various parts of your back. Overall, it will be more stable when under motion and exhibit less strain on your shoulders and trapezius muscles.

Of course, just because a pack does a good job at this, doesn't mean that it has a good suspension. However, it's a relatively simple test that clearly demonstrates the poor suspension design of every UL framed pack I've played with.

Another quick visual test that sometimes works: when a pack is adjusted correctly, are the top of the stays and load-lifter attachments more forward (in the vertical plane) than the hipbelt? Or are they directly above the hipbelt? If the latter, generally the suspension won't work as well. The presence of a lumbar curve when packed is also a good indication of a good suspension system.

Drew,

Based on your description, I'm definitely intrigued by the Arc. At the very least, it sounds like it'll definitely work better than the other UL framed packs.

Kate,

Packs with good suspension systems?

The Mammut Lithium 30 actually has a really nice frame design that carries very well and is actually sub-2lbs. You'll want to bend the frame a little bit to fit your back. Honestly, I think this design is the one most adaptable to UL framed packs. I tried to get Zimmerbuilt to make one with a similar frame design, but he refused to stray from his own framed design which, as described to me, is really no different than GG/SMD/MLD frame designs (crap). It turns out he's more of a semi-custom than a true custom shop.

Many Black Diamond packs I've tried have very good suspension designs. I especially like the Demon (caveat: if the framesheet fits your back). Black Diamond is really close to having really good UL designs. The materials are a bit too heavy though.

Many Osprey packs have good suspension designs. Of the Ospreys, my favorite is the Kode snowpacks – they carry skis exceptionally well, which is a very challenging job for any suspension. I'm not particularly fond of the Hornets or Talons. The Talons are actually exceptional for lighter loads, but tend to collapse when you get into the 20-25lb range. If the framing of the Exos fits you, I'm sure it would be an exceptional UL framed pack.

Deuter makes some good suspension systems, but they're pretty heavy duty and overkill. If they paired down the overall overbuilt-ness of the suspension system, and chose the right features and fabrics, they could make a killer UL pack.

Have you tried the Elemental Designs Kalais? Will Rietveld did a review in which he thought very high of its supportive capabilities. I'm curious why you think none of the UL packs on the market are very supportive. What about the famed ULA Circuit?

I say this not having yet tried a single UL pack. All my stuff thus far (packwise) has been mainstream. I do sympathize somewhat with your concern. If you see my original post, good support is at the top of my list. If no UL cottage manufacturer is making a pack that excels in this area, someone needs to jump into the mix.

Brian, I guess my disagreement with you is why you are so convinced it is the actual design of the pack rather than how it fits you that is the problem? The reason I love the gorilla so much is that FOR ME the shoulder straps really don't even touch my shoulders. At all. I don't really even need to cinch them because it doesn't seem to matter…the pack just rides quite nicely on my hips, hugs my back and is the first pack in 30 years that doesn't give me blisters on my shoulders.

So FOR ME, the design is perfect; FOR YOU it is bad. It is disingenuous of you to cast off all the UL packs as horrid designs for all of us simply because they don't fit you.

My last two packs were Ospreys, including the famed Exos. Horrific for me. Tried to sell it to two different friends, but neither one could carry it because it pulled their shoulders too much, no matter how they packed. Am I saying the design is bad? Nope. Just didn't work for the three of us.

Drew said: "In my experience the pronounced curve of the Arc frame transfers the weight into the small of the back at something of an angle, which tends to keep the "lumbar" area of the pack glued to your back"

I do not have the Arc (drool), but I do have a pack that has a similar curved frame to hold the pack off your back, and I agree totally that it transfers the weight to the small of the back at an inward angle. In everyday life I sometimes have lower back pain that seems to be from my pelvis rotating back and up, causing extra curve and stress in the lower area. When I wear this pack the weight doesn't feel like it is coming "down" on my hips as much as it comes from behind and in — it seems to be "glued" to your back as Drew said, but more specifically for me it seems to "push" my pelvis inward from behind, which rotates it into a better alignment and actually helps my lower back to feel better than when not wearing a pack at all. YMMV.

My guess is a powerful variable in this debate is how each person packs their pack (i.e., weight distribution). Unless you are controlling for this factor and sampling across a range of body types, we are largely just exchanging anecdotes.

I some what agree with Brian. This is why I have been expirementing with an old external frame.

but I dont think that everything he said is right. I like my gorilla and think it carries fine as long as the load stays light(which is what its meant for). Problem is I dont always go light and have pushed the pack to its limits.

but i agree with him in that some one needs to design a better UL pack with a better suspension made for carrying low volume but can handle heavy loads.

though admittidly I did not follow all the design aspects he mentioned… Im a visual person.

Dave,
>overpriced or you simply can't afford it?

There is a difference ;)

Sgt. Rocks review of the Kalais .

"some one needs to design a better UL pack with a better suspension made for carrying low volume but can handle heavy loads."

I know I keep going on about it but I really do love the suspension on the Crux backpacks. Not only is it mega stiff, it is contoured and it is super light, 65g according to their site! The Keprotec stuff they use is bomb-proof and weighs at least 200g per square metre, plus there is an extra layer of 300gsm cordura stitched over the base. I've always thought that if someone could duplicate/license Crux's frame and harness design and couple it with a lightweight Cuben hybrid for the body it would be the ultimate combo, you could probably shave 25-50% of the total weight. That could mean 600-800 grams for 50ish litres.

Well, I've now had the opportunity to try a couple of these packs. Unfortunately, I keep running into the following fit issue: the lumbar region of the pack (i.e., the very lowest part of the backpanel that contacts your spine) presses against my sacral/tailbone region (the region just below your lumbar vertebrae), causing discomfort. What I've found is that many UL packs will lack considerable padding in this area. I'm not sure if it's a fit issue or what (the pack is too big?), but the bottom corner of the pack ends up resting against my tailbone in a manner that is not comfortable.

While trying these packs, I keep going back to my trusty Z55 as a comparison. The Z55 has a curvature that juts out away from the back in an "arc" (not unlike the Arc Blast, although I've never tried one). Now the stated purpose of this is to cool your back off. But the benefit for me, anyway, is that the lumbar portion of the pack (which is generously padded on the Z55) sits in the small of your back (the curved portion of your lumbar vertebrae), and since the mesh "trampoline" keeps the mid part off your back, none of the pack really sits on your back at all. It's really hard to explain, but the pack just wraps around your low back/hips without pressing against the spine as I'm finding with UL packs.

Here are some pics so you can guys can get a feel for what I'm talking about.

Thoughts?