LW Moutaineering Packs

[Robert Mohid]

Hi Graham,

I am interested in the 75 worksack, but the lack of any pictures on the website is a BIG minus. Anything you can put up would be great. From the blog update, you seem to imply that if you didn't pre-order, you're likely out of luck …

Is this accurate ?

I am curious about the 45v2.

[Steve .]

Graham, weights for the different packs would be helpful for shoppers as well.

[Graham Williams]

Robert:

The 45 isn't really a V2…they just sold out very fast and now they're just about back in stock.

The 75L on the other hand is a V2. I don't have pictures of the new pack yet as we haven't finished it. Basically, we tried to use the same suspension as we use on the other packs, and it didn't satisfy my standards. I will be happy to post photos of the 75V2 as soon as they're available. Imagine, if you will, a gigantic 60L pack with a zipper seperating the bottom of the pack from the middle section of the pack.
Based on the level of interest shown in the pack, I expect that there will be enough of the new 75L packs available to satisfy demand. I'm making more of them than I thought that I would.
We're scheduled to start production in early June and finish by the end of June.

[kevin davidson]

Absolutely, Graham. Hauling is the greatest test one can give pack material apart from chucking it into the void.

My cordura- bottomed Andinista is much patched. One wishes that Alpine Packs could heal themselves like skin. Aha–the future of materials technology! :-)

But for the kind of tasks the original poster has indicated, Dyneema is not at all inappropriate.

[Graham Williams]

Steve,

All of the available packs have weights of each component of the pack in the right hand bar.

[Graham Williams]

Kevin wrote:
"Absolutely, Graham. Hauling is the greatest test one can give pack material apart from chucking it into the void.

My cordura- bottomed Andinista is much patched. One wishes that Alpine Packs could heal themselves like skin. Aha–the future of materials tehnology! :-)

But for the kind of tasks the original poster has indicated, Dyneema is not at all inappropriate."

Uh. But we're talking about Cordura, not Dyneema. Ripstop Cordura with some Dyneema threads isn't magically getting the abrasion resistance of Dyneema. It still falls apart when put down on rocks, and don't even think of letting your ice tools near the stuff.

I was chosen as development partner of DSM last winter, and when we release woven Dyneema packs this summer, believe me, I'll let you know. I can also let you know that they will cost a bunch…at least $550 for a 60 liter pack.

I personally feel that in the mountain environment, you need significantly greater abrasion resistance than in other environments. This is the same for snow slogging, or high speed alpinism or alpine rock. Of course, this is just one opinion, but it's what I've come to believe over the years.

[kevin davidson]

Graham, I'm not disagreeing with you. I think we're talking past each other, or something. I certainly don't question your fabric smarts—you're very much at the top of the game in the Pack field—your materials set offers the best combination of low weight and durability I've seen in an Alpine pack.

The "Dyneema" I'm talking about, 210d Dyneema Gridstop, is of course not the horrifically $$$100% Spectra Dyneema— and although it has improved tear resistant capabilities, it's no more abrasion resistant than the 210d material it's imbedded in. But it's certainly not bad as a UL pack material that would only be used (sometimes) for "light" mountaineering duties—-3rd and 4th Class Sierra peaks and off-trail adventures and the like. Not Ice climbing, not load hauling, no tech routes in the Dolomites. Certainly not for a dedicated Alpine Climbing pack. It's this material that ULA, Golite, Six Moons, etc. uses in many of their UL packs.

[Steve .]

My bad, thanks for helping the blind :)

[Graham Williams]

I use the stuff too, from the same converters…

I guess I just don't trust 210d cordura / dyneema around rocks. I use it on the side panels of my packs, but with an ice axe or a talus field thrown into the mix I just don't trust the material to survive long on the bottom of a pack. And I don't like the idea of making disposable gear.

yeah, with careful care, 210 cordura / dyneema will last fine, but as a manufacturer, I have to err on the side of caution. The High Sierra scrambles that I've done have certainly had large enough talus fields around them to eat and destroy light weight packs. I'm equally confident that ULA hikers have succesfully navigated talus fields, high passes and all that, and that folks will continue to do so with the lightest imaginable packs.

I guess that when I hear certain words, like "mountaineering", I think about worst case scenarios and all the rest…

[kevin davidson]

Yeah, Mountaineering is a word thrown around loosely.

cheers
KD

[Brian Sims]

Kevin and Graham,

Re the use of the word mountaineering in my original post. You bring up a good point. I will not be doing what either of you would consider mountaineering, not would I for that matter I guess. One might call it off trail peak bagging on class II/III routes. Hardly mountaineering to most.

I really wanted to separate my needs from the more common long distance or regular 3 season trail hiker. The differences between these two activities seem to require a different pack.

I personally need a bit more space for bulkier cloths, sleeping bag, and tent. Additionally there is the wear and tear issues of being around abrasive Sierra granite.

Thank you all for a wealth of information. This thread has been very informative. I would never have consider many of the recommendations provided because I simply did not know they existed.

Graham, I will be keeping a my eyes open the release of the 75L WS V2. I sent you an email, so you have my personal email. A production run in June will fit nicely into my summer outdoor plans. I just hope I have some money left after my trip to China on the 28th.

[Graham Williams]

Brett, Brian, Whomever else…

I finally got some decent pictures taken of the suspension. While I'm working on getting them onto the website, please feel free to check out http://picasaweb.google.com/cilogear Sorry it took so long.

[larry savage]

I have also worn out an Andinista and since my budget master said no new pack I dug out my old Rivendell Jensen pack, circa 1971. 3100 cu.in @ 2#. These packs had no frame needing somewhat careful packing but carried and climbed [and skied] really well. There was a bigger version called a Giant that went at 4500 cu.in. and weighed 2 1/2 #.
I've used this old pack all spring and enjoyed it as well as anything I've used recently.
So the point is it's been resurrected at rivendellmountainworks. JustAnotherPackferRetroMonkeys…

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