I need help finding a lightweight warmth layer

Before I get started, I'll assume that this is an outer layer that you want and not a warm base layer.

That said, I would go for the Patagonia Micropuff Pullover or Micropuff Vest. I have both and they are plenty warm. In most conditions that I face (over 30 degrees), the pullover is almost too warm. Most of the time the vest will suffice. But, if I expect it to be really cold (sub 30), I will take the pullover for sitting around camp and just sitting still if it's a cold day.

Yes, sorry, I plan to wear it over the t-shirt or long sleeve shirt and under the jacket as required by temperature. I am guessing it needs to stand up to ~low 40s, high 30s.

If those are the criteria, go with a lightweight down/synthetic vest. Western Mountaineering makes a good (and expensive) down vest. Montbell and Patagonia come to mind as two companies that make great lightweight synthetic vests.

I like the MontBell Down Inner Jacket. It's a favorite piece of gear. The MontBell Thermawrap is also outstanding. I own both but seldom take out the synthetic jacket. The Down Inner Jacket is a regular friend of mine.

I'd aree W/ Drew on the Patagonia Micropuff jacket & vest.
I have Thermolite Extreme jacket and pants. They are very warm under Gore-Tex shells yet light and very packable in 1/2 liter sized stuff sacks.

Down is ONLY OK as long as you are sedentary. Work up a bit of a sweat and down gets and stays wet.

Eric

Agree with the Patagonia Micropuff recommendation. That's what I have and swear by. But if you really want the ultimate in ultralight, BMW's Cocoon UL 60 Vest or Jacket are HALF the weight of the Micropuffs.

Is it overkill to have a down vest/jacket and a windproof/waterproof jacket?

I am also worried about the down from the perspective of moisture.

Is there any other fabric that provides good warmth and is lightweight?

Zack,

No it isn’t overkill to have a warm layer and a waterproof layer. The two jackets serve completely different purposes.

It sounds like what you have (and are looking to complete) is a traditional layering system. While this will work well enough, there are more up to date techniques.

Check out this article from promountainsports.com on a 3 or 4 layer system to get an idea of what I’m talking about.

Anyways, to answer your original question, I have the Patagonia Micropuff pullover and can whole-heartedly recommend it.

The fleeces that Patagonia uses are relatively warm for their weight. I particularly like the Patagonia R2 fleece vest. They also make R2 jackets and the warmer and heavier R4 vests and jackets.

High quality fleece is heavier than down and heavier than the synthetics used in Patagonia Micropuffs and BMW Cocoons, but it won't collapse when wet and breathes supremely well.

So I think I am close to the idea for the 3 layer system.

I was just planning to use a t-shirt base layer instead of a long sleeve shirt for warmer climates. I have the windproof shell and the long sleeve shirt. I just need the warmth layer.

I am going to have to try to find stores with these products for sale so I can try them on before I buy them.

What about the BPL Bozeman Cocoon UL60 vest? 5.3 oz. InsulationPolarguard Delta

http://www.bozemanmountainworks.com/?do=showproduct&id=36

How is this for warmth, light weight and issues with moisture/sweat?

Yes, I was lucky enough to score a fall '05 Micro Puff jacket in dark grey last week, 50% off, at a local outfitter. Am very impressed with its lightness though obviously haven't had the opportunity to trail-test it yet. But others here have already done that, and frankly, that's how I knew to snap up that jacket. Thanks!!

I find that another local store has a Micro Puff jacket in XXL (HUGE!) 50% off and a medium red Micro Puff vest 40% off. These critturs run large. Will supply info if these tickle anyone's fancy.

So I found this chart on this website:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/ssn/GearDB/pc/Apparel/Lightweight%20Synthetic%20High%20Loft%20Insulating%20Vests/index.html?gs=custom2

It shows the Bozeman vest as being almost half as heavy as the micropuff. However, I can't tell the difference between warmth and their ability to handle moisture. The Bozeman vest is actually a good bit more expensive.

The Bozeman full jacket weighs less than the micropull vest. I am not sure how to determine if I should get the full pullover or just the vest. I am looking for the most versatility. I don't usually do a lot of cold weather backpacking and if I did, I have other, heavier parkas and down jackets I could bring…
But I do want to account for hiking into increased altitudes or cold desert nights.

Don't worry about getting your insulation layer damp with sweat. It simply doesn't happen on any appreciable level. If you're sweating enough to collapse the loft of a down jacket, you don't need to be wearing it to stay warm. Most people don't hike in high-loft gear unless temps are very low. Even then, the shell fabrics of the garments being discussed here are breathable enough that the moisture will escape, unless the freezing point is inside of the jacket's shell…but it would have to be pretty cold for this to be an issue (teens or single digits). Furthermore, even these conditions would only be a concern if they persisted for 3 or 4 days and conditions did not permit an opportunity to dry the garmet at all.

Generally, your temperature break points are: >40 degrees, bring a high loft vest, <40 degrees bring a sleeved pullover or full jacket, possibly with hood. That's erring on the side of caution temp-wise. I can get by with a lightweight l/s baselayer, Micropuff vest, and windshirt down to about 25 degrees and be comfortable (using a fleece cap and gloves as well). Caveat: if you're cold blooded, just get the sleeved garmet and call it a day.

If you plan to use the insulating layer to augment your sleeping bag, take this into account as well. Make sure the garment adds the warmth you need.

Thank you for your comments. That clears a lot up.

Now do you have an opinion about the Bozeman products with synthetic loft products which are lighter but possibly less warm than the Patagonia products? The Bozeman also being more expensive of course…

I don't own a single piece of BMW clothing. The new Cocoon line has just been released for pre-sale. Someone may correct me here but it seems the older line is generally regarded as being comparable in warmth to Montbell's Thermawrap items, and slightly less warm than Patagonia's Micropuff line…but probably have a greater warmth-to-weight ratio. Patagonia's down sweater is a little warmer and heavier than Montbell's down inner jacket. I'm not sure about the Paty down sweater vest. There doesn't seem to be much info out there on that piece.