Mar 25, 2013 at 9:03 am #1300863
John McBPL Member
You see the title….. Which one would be warmer as a baselayer? Last year I hiked with the Ibex Hooded Indie at 195 g/m, but I just learned from the Ibex site that it's 16.65 oz. The new Patagonia Capilene 4 Hooded Top weighs 8.5 oz. You know which one I'd like to carry, but which one is warmer?Mar 25, 2013 at 9:11 am #1969344
Nico .BPL Member
@nickbLocale: Los Padres National Forest
My strictly non-scientific findings are that the Cap 4 is warmer.
I own both pieces and have hiked in both. I've typically used either piece as a thin midlayer rather than a base layer (my base layer is always the thinnest, lightest merino t-shirt I can find), but I definitely feel warmer wearing the cap 4 over my baselayer than the ibex hoody.
The Ibex is more like a slighly heavy gauge t-shirt whereas the cap 4 is more like a thin fleece.
Both are really great pieces though…Mar 25, 2013 at 9:23 am #1969347
@davecLocale: The West Slope
Insofar as you can test such thin fabrics in a lab, I'd bet that the Cap 4 would test warmer. In use the story isn't so simple.
Relatively thick wool like the Indie and hi-void grid fleece like the Cap 4 are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of wicking. The 4 will move moisture super fast and retain little within the fabric. Wool will move it off your skin slower, and keep it within the fibers as it evaporates.
In application, this means that with the 4 you'll need to use another garment to deal with evaporative cooling sooner than you would with the wool. On the other hand, if sweat a fair bit you'll be more dry faster and more often with the 4. It will come down to personal preference.
I don't wear wool garments heavier than 150 g/meter because I sweat too much and they end up soggy. The Cap 4 suits my style well.Mar 25, 2013 at 7:33 pm #1969564
I'm spitballing and brainstorming, so don't jump down my throat if I'm off the mark, but here goes!
It's kind of like saying "Which is healthier, apples or oranges?"
They share a lot of common vitamins and all, but they're different fruits, so they'll be giving different advantages and disadvantages too.
So, compare warmth, but also consider the following:
The Ibex has thumb loops, which might save you weight on gloves.
The Ibex is Merino Wool, which has been tested and proven to smell significantly better after long-term use and prevent bacterial growth.
The Ibex makes a good baselayer in sub-40ºF conditions
Weight Savings, that's a biggie.
The synthetic fleece is thicker, which takes longer to dry and won't move moisture as efficiently.
So, you'll save a lot of weight going with the Capilene. However, if you replace your baselayer with the Ibex instead, you'll gain a next-to-skin layer that will deal with your sweat much better. Additionally, you can supplement your hat and gloves easily with more thin wool. The Capilene can't really do the next-to-skin thing as well, since it won't wick and evaporate moisture as fast and it'll absorb sweat odors, which means you'll probably want a thin baselayer, which is more weight. Even if you don't… there's still that stink.
These pieces are different enough in purpose that a weight or warmth comparison isn't the whole story. if it helps, Andrew Skurka said his hooded merino wool baselayer with thumb loops was one of his favorite pieces on the Alaska-Yukon loop. The Ibex Indie specifically is his preferred piece for cold and wet conditions.Mar 26, 2013 at 3:39 am #1969643
@luffarjohanLocale: Wrong place at the right rime
Just my two cents… sitting here in a cap4 hoody at the moment.
-It has thumbloops (male version a little bit more simple than the female version)
-It breathes very well due to the thin fabric between the "bumps" and dries extremely fast.
I don't see it as a midlayer, but a baselayer. The syntetic-smell is something to consider if you're out more than a couple of days without washing though.
/JohanMar 26, 2013 at 10:43 am #1969732
christopher smeadBPL Member
@hamsterfishLocale: San Jose, CA
Ibex for no stink, Capilene for faster drying times.
For longer trips where it's not likely to rain too much, I bring the ibex.
Keeps the stank down. For shorter trips where ya want to save an ounce, or any trip where rain is likely I'd go for the Capilene.Mar 26, 2013 at 12:42 pm #1969784
John McBPL Member
I appreciated all of your well thought out and experienced responces.Mar 26, 2013 at 12:52 pm #1969785
just to add: Couldn't stand the the fit of the Cap 4 hoody. Too tight with the hood on, and when the hood was off it was an awkward fit on my neck.
Took it back and instead am using the Cap 4 Zip Crew + Cap 4 beanie, is perfect.Mar 26, 2013 at 3:04 pm #1969836
Gerry B.BPL Member
@taedawoodLocale: Louisiana, USA
I have both and I definitely think the Cap 4 Hoody is warmer IF I wear a windjacket over it when it is windy. My favorite combo is to wear against the skin a very lightweight merino t-shirt (sometimes short sleeve, sometimes long sleeve – depending on the weather), aka Rab Meco 120 with the Patagonia Cap 4 Hoody as a mid layer. Besides comfort and warmth, the Rab Meco does not smell whatsoever and keeps the Cap 4 hoody from smelling.Mar 26, 2013 at 4:47 pm #1969858
Mike MBPL Member
dam(n) there are a lot of us that own both :)
I think a few have mentioned that the Cap 4 breathes better, but it also lets the wind in- w/o a windshirt the cap 4 can be might cold in the wind
I think given a completely wind free environment, the cap 4 would be a little warmer, but not much
they (Ibex) must have made some major changes to the Indie as my Men's Large weighs 9.8 oz, that's a long ways from 16 ozMar 26, 2013 at 5:02 pm #1969863
Michael GillenwaterBPL Member
@mwgillenwaterLocale: Seattle area
my Ibex Indie hoodie, size small, weighs 8.5oz
almost half what was listed and about the same as what you listed for the cap 4 (which i assume is a medium).Mar 26, 2013 at 6:01 pm #1969876
Steven ParisBPL Member
@saparisorLocale: Pacific Northwest
Confession: I also have both.
Mentioned above, I like the Cap4 Hoody as a midlayer with a light merino baselayer. This past weekend was the 1st time I got to wear the Hoody, during a short urban hike around Portland last weekend. Temps started in the high 40s/low 50s. I wore an Icebreaker Tech T (150 wt), the Cap 4 Hoody and a windshell over that. I didn't really need the windshell that much and would have taken it off more except it was a pullover.
If moving, I think I would have been comfortable in this into the low 30s/high 20s, adding gloves and hat and vest as needed.May 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm #1987352
Randy CainBPL Member
@bagboyLocale: Palmdale, CA
As much as I want to love the Cap 4 hoodie, the fit kinda drive me nuts. I'm 5'9" and 165lbs, and the Large is too tight under my armpits. After wearing it for awhile, I start to forget about the tightness, but apparently even though I'm NOT a big guy at all, I require an XL. Strange to me.May 18, 2013 at 7:01 pm #1987416
Brian LindahlBPL Member
@lindahlbLocale: Colorado Rockies
Both are either too warm or cold in the presence of wind w/o a wind jacket. A lighter baselayer and a sub-4oz winshirt works way better for me in 3 season mountain weather. Cap 4 and heavyish merino are winter baselayers for me. You might be better suited with a winshirt over a lighter baselayer (down to around 30 deg hiking temps).May 18, 2013 at 9:53 pm #1987458
Mark VerberBPL Member
@verberLocale: San Francisco Bay Area
my comparison of key attributes:
patagonia capilene 4:
warmer if wind blocked
cooler wearing if in wind without protection
dries quicker than wool
unlike most synthetics… doesn't get clammy (wool like)
more durable than wool
will stink if worn multiple days when sweating in moderate to hot weather… not so bad in cold to cool weather
wool (I haven't used the ibex hooded, but have use wool thats 150 g/m and 200 g/m)
super stink resistant, can go almost a week before I notice anything, though do smell like a damp sheep if it gets really wet :)
seems to help me regulate my temp better without on/off other garments
dries slower than capilene 4
doesn't get clammy
less durable, but doesn't melt
daytimes consistently >60F… wool (though typically something lighter weight than the Ibex Hooded Indie) primarily because of the anti-stink and generally good comfort.
If majority of the daytime <=60F, Capilene 4! It is the best base layer I have ever used. I use it for all my done in a day activities hiking, skiing, biking, running, etc whenever the tmp is <55F. I have been reasonably comfort doing a big uphill push when it was 55F and ok with sleeves pushed up and zipper fully open up to 70F. With it zipped up, hood up, and a windshirt worn I have been comfort hiking down to 35F. Cap4 with a windshirt to control how much air is allowed to pass covers a huge range of conditions.
as far as fit of cap4 hoody… it is cut slim, but it's also stretchy. I am 5'10", 160lb… the medium is snug but comfort. I think the snug fit is part of what makes it work as well as it does. I can't image using the Cap4 as a mid-layer unless you sized up at least 2 sizes. Personally, I think it's best right next to the skin to maximize the grid/void performance.
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