Mar 24, 2013 at 8:52 am #1300816
Sean PassanisiBPL Member
Hello. I lost my beloved Houdini last week (I'm still in a grieving phase). I had a Spring 2012 model. I tried on the Fall 2013 model yesterday and noticed the fit is more slim than before. The Houdini fits well with just a baselayer, but is a bit on the tighter side when worn over my down vest.
Is a tighter fit with a windshirt more optimal for better performance (warmth, etc.)?
FYI, the sleeve cuffs are tighter (positive) but the pocket storage is also tighter (negative) on the new model.Mar 24, 2013 at 3:43 pm #1969124
Heath PittsBPL Member
I thought I had read where the new model was made with runners in mind. That's probably why it is tighter than the 2012. Maybe someone else can chime in to verify.Mar 24, 2013 at 4:18 pm #1969136
Nathan WattsBPL Member
It's preferable that the wind shirt isn't so baggy as to flap around in the wind.
My running specific ones are trimmer fit because I'll never have more than a base layer underneath. Actually for running I go a bit further and prefer mesh panels for venting and might opt not to have a hood.
My hiking ones can accommodate a light puffy mid layer underneath, and have a hood.Mar 24, 2013 at 6:44 pm #1969196
Martin ClarkBPL Member
@marty_mcflyLocale: Southeast US
I agree with what nathan said. I use a marmot trail wind hoody for running and LOVE it, and the fit is a little slimmer than my old montane windshirt. I think patagonia has in the past had a baggy fit. I'd say just size up one if its that important that you have your insulation layer under your windshirt. I can fit my insulation under my medium marmot windshirt with little problems.Aug 27, 2013 at 11:05 pm #2019344
Sean PassanisiBPL Member
Bringing back my old thread while considering the purchase of a new windshell.
I'm still curious as to whether people use a more fitted windshirt that is optimized for size to just fit over a baselayer or sized larger to fit over insulation. My rainshell easily accommodates a puffy (but is baggy over a baselayer). My old windshirt fit tightly over a puffy (but fits well over just a base layer). For my new windshirt, I'm debating whether to keep the previous fit or get a larger one to layer over something more than a baselayer.
Thanks.Aug 27, 2013 at 11:27 pm #2019347
Jeff JeffBPL Member
I always thought windshirts really shined when used during high activity. They strike a good balance of breathability and protection from the wind. A lot of the time all you need for warmth on a cool day is a baselayer. Add a little wind and you'll quickly get chilled, which is where the windshirt comes in.
A down jacket is usually used when stationary. Why would you layer a windshirt over it? Does wind affect a down jacket that much?Aug 28, 2013 at 6:01 am #2019372
Phillip AsbyBPL Member
@pgasbyLocale: North Carolina
I'm still a newbie but have become a convert to the windshirt concept. And if I'm stopping for a short period I'll layer an insulation on top of the windshirt.
If I'm in camp for good I'll usually dispense with it altogether…Aug 28, 2013 at 6:34 am #2019373
"A down jacket is usually used when stationary. Why would you layer a windshirt over it? Does wind affect a down jacket that much?"
In windy conditions the windshirt helps reduce heat loss by convection, it creates a layer of still(er) air around the jacket. Like using a bivy over a sleeping bag.
I guess that puts me in the camp of using baggy jackets :)Aug 28, 2013 at 7:32 am #2019393
Nathan WattsBPL Member
"I guess that puts me in the camp of using baggy jackets"
Get a baggy rain jacket then and use that in camp over your down jacket.Aug 28, 2013 at 8:49 am #2019425
Steve KBPL Member
@skomaeLocale: northeastern US
I was in the same issue as you. Luckily I found my 2012 Houdini, but now that I've gotten used to the fit of the trimmer fitting 2013 Houdini the older one has become my backup.
The only thing that goes under my Houdini is my R1 or Cap4 hoody. A slimmer fit is better, since flapping around excessively pumps air, precisely the thing that the windshirt is supposed to stop.Aug 28, 2013 at 9:03 am #2019431
"Get a baggy rain jacket then and use that in camp over your down jacket."
That's a good idea too. Though I prefer ponchos :)Aug 28, 2013 at 10:32 am #2019480
eric chanBPL Member
if you are using a windshirt like its "meant" to be used … size it snug enough that you wont be flapping in the wind like a flag
especially with active pursuits … the snugger it is the better its "breathability" (theres a reason why gore requires its active shell to be snug) … and the less it gets in the way
usually just large enough so that it can take a fleece or UL down jacket under …
when at quick stops simply put the puffy over the windshirt … sure you lose a bit of "warmth" vs putting it under … but you arent going to be faffing around taking your windshirt off, putting on the down jacket, then putting back on the windshirt when its only a short time … youll lose more warmth with that process, not preserving the built up body heat … and in windy conditions, a recipe for losing a layer
in camp you can put the light puffy under the the windshirt … or if its a larger puffy, put it OVER … for rain as someone has mentioned it makes more sense to size the RAIN JACKET to fit over everything, rather than the windshirt, and simply put that on
;)Aug 28, 2013 at 11:58 am #2019530
That's actually pretty cool about snug fits for better breathe-ability. I'll have to re-think my strategy.
Down here (Costa Rica) I lean towards ponchos because the temperature and humidity are frequently high enough that WPB rain jackets still trap moisture. They aren't very useful as casual windshirts unless you go into the cooler mountains.
At the lower altitudes (warm and humid) I rarely wear insulation beyond a long-sleeve shirt or a light warming layer. So a snug fit over these items would make sense.
If I go to a higher altitude (cool and humid) then, I can trade the poncho+windshirt for the WPB jacket and use it as a windshirt. The cooler air makes the jacket workable… with good ventilation.
Something to try on my next trip!Aug 28, 2013 at 12:15 pm #2019540
David ChenaultBPL Member
@davecLocale: Crown of the Continent
Get two windshirts. An athletic one which is more breathable for summer and fast-motion activities, and a more weatherproof one that has enough room for a fleece underneath for shoulder seasons, winter, and slower activities.
I prefer the Rab Cirrus for the former, and the Wild Things Tactical for the later.
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