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Winter/Shoulder season sleep system

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Mar 21, 2013 at 8:30 pm #1300751

Allen Butts
BPL Member

@butts0989
Locale: Northern Rockies

I'm kind of having a hard tim really putting this together and I find myself switching between so many different options so I thought I'd post it and see what everyone else has to say about it. I mostly travel around northern colorado, so winter conditions are generally cold (sometimes into the negatives) and pretty dry. I want this system to be good down to -10 F. So heres what I currently have picked out:

-Katabatic gear Sawatch
-Katabatic Crestone hood
-Thermarest Solite (cut to 45'')
-1/8'' CCF pad used as insulation and groundsheet

clothing worn:
-goosefeet down booties
-smartwool socks
-cap 2 bottoms
-Montbell UL inner pants
-cap 2 top
-Montbell UL inner jacket
-Ice breaker 200g gloves and beanie

Ill be sleeping inside a Trailstar with this system, would a bivi be necessary?

Mar 21, 2013 at 9:38 pm #1968429

Steven Paris
BPL Member

@saparisor
Locale: Pacific Northwest

The only possible weak link could be the Ridge Rest SoLite, which has a listed R-value of 2.8. The CCF shouldn't add much to that. However, it's been a while since I've winter camped so take that with a grain of salt. On snow, maybe an R-value of around 3+ would be enough. In theory, I think I'd want more, so your system isn't fighting the heat loss to the ground. But again, in practice you might have different results.

Mar 22, 2013 at 4:09 am #1968454

Stephen M
BPL Member

@stephen-m
Locale: Way up North

For those temps I would want at least r6 if not more, if you look on Expeds website they give temperature
Ratings and r values for each pad, its a handy way to figure out what you need.

Mar 22, 2013 at 6:27 am #1968477

Here There
BPL Member

@cowexnihilo

I agree with with above posters, the pad seems to be a weak link. Having enough pad for how you sleep and the conditions makes a huge difference, and personally I would want R5-R6 at those temperatures.

In the winter around 10F and below I make the switch to a full-length pad system because of the added downtime from the long nights.

-David

Mar 22, 2013 at 6:50 am #1968481

Allen Butts
BPL Member

@butts0989
Locale: Northern Rockies

Has anyone had any experience with the thermarest Xtherm? It claims a pretty unbelievable r 5.7 and only comes in at 15 ounces. Seeing that there is no insulation inside makes me question its legitimacy…

Mar 22, 2013 at 8:13 am #1968502

Nick VanBurkleo
BPL Member

@envybee
Locale: Midwest

If it's anything like the XLite, which it seems like it is, it probably sounds like you are sleeping on top of a million crumpled up Mylar balloons and potato chip bags. If you can deal with the noise, the R value is probably pretty accurate.

Mar 22, 2013 at 8:12 pm #1968715

Allen Butts
BPL Member

@butts0989
Locale: Northern Rockies

Ha thanks Nick, pretty valuable advice in my opinion, thats the reason I havent bought a neoair as well. So no more kookah bay? i just tried to check out their website and it was non existant…

Mar 24, 2013 at 12:50 pm #1969072

Chris Bell
BPL Member

@hobbit
Locale: PA Wilds

I have used the Thermarest Neoair Xtherm this past winter with very good results. I took it to 0° F and found it to be very warm. The noise was not a factor for me. I am a side sleeper and often change from left to right side during the night. In practice the noise was slight and low level. Laying there and regular breathing etc did not cause any noise. The pad heats quickly and was quite comfortable. Now if you grab the thickness of the pad and squeeze it quickly over and over – yep it’s real loud and annoying. But I rarely do that when sleeping :)

Mar 24, 2013 at 12:58 pm #1969077

BlackHatGuy
Spectator

@sleeping
Locale: The Cascades

Agree with Chris. Noise is simply not a problem once it's inflated. I also toss and turn at night and I really don't notice the noise when I do. I had mine down to 15 degrees on snow (with just a cuben groundsheet below me) two nights ago and it was toasty. I'd recommend it.

Mar 24, 2013 at 5:11 pm #1969152

Allen Butts
BPL Member

@butts0989
Locale: Northern Rockies

It looks like the Xtherm might be the way for me to go. Now who wants to sell me one…?

Mar 24, 2013 at 5:13 pm #1969153

BlackHatGuy
Spectator

@sleeping
Locale: The Cascades

"It looks like the Xtherm might be the way for me to go. Now who wants to sell me one…?"

Cascade Designs?

Mar 24, 2013 at 5:16 pm #1969158

Allen Butts
BPL Member

@butts0989
Locale: Northern Rockies

"Cascade Designs?"

Well money is a little tight, I just bought the quilt and a trailstar so im hesitant to buy anything else. If i found a good deal I would be more prone to buy one but i may just wait around until one comes along. I truly dont even need it until next winter.

Mar 24, 2013 at 5:31 pm #1969170

Jan S
Member

@karl-ton

I'd also recommend the XTherm. Have one and it's nice.

If that is too expensive for now though: R values of foam pads can just be added. So if you add a thick foam pad to the Solite you should be able to get enough insulation. In Germany you can get thick Evazote matts (15 mm or more) almost everywhere for 30 €. They're a bit heavy and bulky in that thickness but cheap and warm and they don't break. At all. I think mec.ca has some. Not sure if they're available in the US though.

Mar 25, 2013 at 1:59 pm #1969450

Josh Brock
Member

@needsabath
Locale: Outside

I am not UL hiker in the winter so take this with a grain of salt.

I love my HUGE Exped down matt for the winter sleeping but I also bring my Zlite. Do I need the Z lite? no, but when your hanging out around camp in the snow it sure is nice to have a closed-cell foam pad you can plop anywhere in the snow and hang out, get a tan, take a nap, cook or what ever. Its a lot more work to do this with a pad you have to blow up. Also, depending on the pad, snow might not come off the material that easily.

As far as the Xtherm I have no outdoors first hand expierence. I blew it up in the store and laid on it. I found it to be noisy(I am a very light sleeper). Also when talking to the guy at REI he told me that he gets a lot of them back. He told me that they are pretty fragile in comparison to other pads.

Again take this info with a grain of salt I pull a pulk. So to an extent I dont really take weight into account.

Mar 25, 2013 at 2:37 pm #1969463

Stephen M
BPL Member

@stephen-m
Locale: Way up North

In deep winter I carry and Downmat UL 7 with a Ridgerest Solite, for this weekend just passed I carried a Symat UL7 with the Solite.

Mar 25, 2013 at 5:08 pm #1969520

Chris Bell
BPL Member

@hobbit
Locale: PA Wilds

Stephen

Curious, did you have the Solite on the top or bottom of the Synmat UL7? What is your preference? I have a Synmat UL7 and might give this a try.

Thanks
Chris

Mar 25, 2013 at 5:16 pm #1969521

Stephen M
BPL Member

@stephen-m
Locale: Way up North

Hi Chris,

I used it with the foam underneath, I have added a few globs of seam sealer to each of the expeds and it keep the two together.

Cheers,

Mar 25, 2013 at 5:39 pm #1969527

Allen Butts
BPL Member

@butts0989
Locale: Northern Rockies

Ive been considering the downmat 7 but i just was a little turned off by the weight of it. Do you find the weight penalty worth it? Ive slept on one twice and i did really enjoy them.

Mar 25, 2013 at 5:43 pm #1969529

Stephen M
BPL Member

@stephen-m
Locale: Way up North

From what I remember my regular Synmat is 460g and the Downmat is 560g.

If I was just going to have one it would be the Downmat.

Mar 25, 2013 at 7:23 pm #1969562

Allen Butts
BPL Member

@butts0989
Locale: Northern Rockies

Ya i think that may be my choice. Its incredibly comfortable and i much prefer the fabric of the exped to the xtherm to sleep on seeing as I'm using a quilt.
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