Mar 13, 2013 at 2:55 pm #1300420
…Mar 13, 2013 at 3:10 pm #1965207
Whoah! Good outside the box thinking.
Now to get Four Dogs to make one of his little stoves with the fan-like air intake in the bottoms for even more efficiency. You might be able to use wood as well.
I wonder how the Jetboil would work with one of the Ikea utensil holders? If it nests, you could use the tent stake trick and height adjustment would be dead simple.
What's the outside diameter on a Jetboil pot?Mar 13, 2013 at 3:20 pm #1965216
@glacierramblerLocale: NW Montana
FYI, the doctor is (Victor) Frankenstein, the monster is just called the "daemon," "hideous progeny," "the creature," or some other fun Gothic epithets. It's also quite lithe and powerful, not lumbering at all like in the movies. So—-you are an innovative, overly enthusiastic scientist who damns nature by joining that which should not be joined. Pretty cool, in my opinion.
Also, you get to call your stove system daemonic.Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 pm #1965389
I was thinking more like the pot stand shown below. Imagine a stand made to fit the Jetboil with good airflow from the bottom.
Search on "ikea woodstove" and you'll see lots of examples. The unaltered Ikea holder is 114mm/4.5" ID at the top and there is a rolled lip that could be removed to add a bit more. In fact the Ikea holder should be cut down to save weight, leaving enough for the optimum burning height for Esbit fuel and holder. I think it would work sweet with an alcohol burner too.Mar 13, 2013 at 10:23 pm #1965396
Steven ParisBPL Member
@saparisorLocale: Pacific Northwest
Interesting, Daniel. I also have a AL Sol pot, which I was going to pair with a Monatauk Gnat stove/canister (not my idea, modeled after another BPL's tinkering). I just haven't gotten around to it.
(1) you might want to remove the neoprene sleeve. I'm speculating here, but the potential for it to catch fire seems greater in with any stove other than one is it designed for. It will also be lighter. However, you then need to come up another way to grab the pot. Silicone bands on the pot, silicone sewing fingers covers, wool gloves, etc.
(2) There are several clear plain plastic lids that fit the Sol pot well; Trader Joe's Oatmeal can lids work well. I have a few if you want one. I won't cook with it, but it drops a little weight.Mar 14, 2013 at 2:05 am #1965422
I don't think you need to remove the whole sleeve, you could probably just cut off the lower inch or so (2.5 cm) and cover the edge with aluminum tape for good measure. to take it even further, you could make a small cozy cup that would cover the bottom part up to where you cut the neoprene.
I like the simplicity of the "system" in the video link where the guy tested directly on the ground over an esbit. You should do some boil tests to see if a tab will boil your 2.5 cups on a single cube, since you don't plan on using the left over cubes anyway.
TimMar 14, 2013 at 4:04 am #1965433
Cam BakerBPL Member
I probably don't need to say this (because I expect that the people on this forum already know it) but while it is simple to light an estbit puck directly on the ground, its a pretty major violation of leave no trace ethics. The heat from an estbit tab is signifigant. The scar on the rock from the burning the tab will last for many years. If this is done on bare soil the heat from the tab will sterilize the soil.
There is a "right" way to do this. Many have documented it but Clelland's 153 tips book has the best illustrations.
IMHO, the behaviour in the video is not consistant with the proper backcountry ethics and is shameful.Mar 14, 2013 at 6:14 am #1965448
todd harperBPL Member
@funnymoLocale: Sunshine State
Cool. A Philadelphia cream cheese lid is durable and way lighter too.Mar 17, 2013 at 5:38 pm #1966783
Jake DBPL Member
not quite quiet but my solo cook kit is 13-15oz (depending on the fuel canister fullness). I did 1.5c boiled in 3min indoors with 60F water.
Stoic 700 pot
Optimus Crux stove
Campbells soup cup
Ti long handle spoon
100g canisterMar 18, 2013 at 6:20 am #1966923
Jake DBPL Member
They might.. i think i usually use my piece of pack towel as a precaution. i wrap the stove in the pack towel to keep things from rattling when packed.Mar 18, 2013 at 7:39 am #1966937
@lunchandynnerLocale: Pacific Northwest
That's a pretty cool test you did there. I have a Jetboil flash and was thinking of making an alcohol stove for it for fun. Seeing that your esbit experiment worked makes me want to try even more!Mar 22, 2013 at 11:54 am #1968584
It is important to note that the JB has ~50% of the bottom surface area of the evernew pot you compared with. I wouldn't generalize your results to say that any non HTX pot is as fuel efficient – just any w/ ~2X the bottom surface area.
For what its worth my alcohol setup will raise 750mL of water 75C (~3cups, ~135F) in ~9mins using 13grs (~.5oz wt) of 95% ethanol.
Nice work on the zip ties.Mar 22, 2013 at 6:25 pm #1968696
Sorry wasn't trying to steer you away from esbit…
I reran my stove a couple of times:
Outside 40F air temp, little wind, 625gr(2.6cups) water @ 54F w/ one 17gr ice cube added just after taking water temp and just before firing up. 14grs ethanol…
Rolling boil ~12.5 minutes continued simmering till 15:50s.
This is a little slower than the other measurements I provided as this was outside on concrete vs inside on stovetop — I think the main factor is that the concrete slowed the rate of evaporation of the alcohol for burning. Typically inside the stove will only burn for about 13-14mins (although hotter).Mar 22, 2013 at 8:55 pm #1968727
I'm also trying to dial in my Esbit kit. Great idea using a Sol Ti! I read through your review but I missed the total weight. How heavy is your kit minus fuel?Mar 23, 2013 at 4:57 pm #1968880
Backpack JackBPL Member
@jumpbackjackLocale: Armpit of California
Daniel I like what you've done, looks great.
Since we're on the cook kit subject I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring, so to speak.
This is my go to kit 90% of the time, it will last me 3-4 days worth, for boiling water on the fuel that is included in the total weight. This does not factor in that I can aslo use this kit in wood burning mode where permissible
The total weight is 12.8 oz with the AGG cozy and 10.7 without it.
I started with an Imusa mug (the larger one) and cut the handle off for easier storage and cozy fit.
The kit includes Imusa mug, homemade pot cozy, mini bic, 3 esbit tabs, 2 oz of alcolhol, Starlyte alcolhol stove by Zelph Stoveworks, esbit Titanium stove, Titanium pot stand made by our very own BPL member Gary Dunckle (Zia-Grill-Guy, thanks Gary it works great)Titanium wind screen, neoprene pot grabber, Titanium lid, wash cloth, aluminum heat shield, one paper clip and one rubber band.
I've used this in the winter at 21* outside and the water in the bottle was a little frozen, but I managed to get 3 cups of water out.
On one oz of fuel in the Starlyte, with 3 cups of almost frozen water, it took 15 min to a rolling boil with a burn out at 22 min. This kit has worked good for me so far and the esbit is efficient also, taking about 6-7 min to boil 2 cups of water.
Cook kit in Anitgravitygear cozy.
Cook kit out of AGG cozy.
All the components.
Without the AGG cozy.
All inside, with room for more fuel or utensils.
JackMar 23, 2013 at 6:37 pm #1968896
Yep, only 14grs for the amount of water. I'd guess its closer to 11-12gr based on the amount of simmer it had left after reaching boiling.
This is zelphs "modified" starlite, a stanco geasepot and myog Al flashing cone/stand. Total weight of these components is ~4.5oz.Mar 24, 2013 at 10:33 am #1969034
Dan YeruskiBPL Member
James, a few years ago is when I experimented with the Modified StarLyte Burner in an enclosed environment. I made some myog Al flashing windscreens cone shaped but not pot supporting. I used the StarLyte stove with modified burner. The Stanco Kmart grease pot sits right on the stove. Windscreen snugs right up close to the pot.
As others have witnessed, the windscreen need not be cone shaped when using the Modified Burner.
In these two photobucket videos you can see how the Modified Burner is used with the Stanco Grease pot.Mar 24, 2013 at 12:57 pm #1969076
I'm intrigued with the Jetboil pot and Easbit option. I found a used Flash pot to experiment with last week. I've been looking for cans to fit but haven't found a ready made fit yet.
The best option so far has been the fat short cans used for canned tomatoes. That size is about 3/8" too wide to fit the outside diameter of the bottom section where the bayonet lock to engage the stove is. I need a way to make a clean circular cut in the top of the can to give a good tight fit for the pot. I want a good stable setup when done.
I have one option made from the stainless sidewall of an Ikea utensil holder that fits inside the bottom ring of the pot, just rolling it and fastening it with a stove bolt and washers through the existing holes. The smaller diameter is less stable. My Big Plan is to do a precise fit on the outside with some aluminum flashing and pop rivet it together. That should still fit inside the pot. Then I need to cook up a holder for the Esbit tab ( pun intended).Mar 25, 2013 at 8:51 am #1969334
"The purpose of the heat exchanger and the windscreen is to make sure that all the heat energy in the fuel is transmitted to the water"
Probably better to think of the HTX purpose as increasing the energy xfered to the water — no HTX will ever get it all there. Your two tests don't isolate the HTX effect well enough bc the pot geometry is so different. Do you have a cookpot that has similar shape as the JB (diameter & height/volume) but no fins? If so I'd run a test comparing those.
I guarantee that if you cut the fins off of your JB the fuel consumption would go up in your test, I won't speculate how much.
I do think the that with a HTX pot inside a cone you get diminishing returns wrt fuel economy vs increased pot weight.Mar 26, 2013 at 5:42 am #1969659
Kevin BeedenBPL Member
My limited experience with a JetBoil pan and small alcohol burners suggested that they're not a good match; quite a lot of sooting on the pan, and slow boil times.
The thing to remember is that a heat exchanger is only useful if there's a lot of heat to exchange. For a gas burner set on full power, there's a lot of heat, from a vigorous flame, and the heat exchanger can pull out the heat from the flame that would otherwise spill (relatively) uselessly up the side of the pan. This is what contributes to the JetBoil's fast boil time, and reputation for burning food to the bottom of the pan…
For lower-power burners, such as alcohol and Esbit, with sluggish flames, there isn't a great deal of heat spare in the flame for the exchanger to extract. In the worst case, the exchanger can actually work in reverse, radiating heat from the hot pan to the environment, reducing the efficiency of the stove.
My suspicion is that the sluggish flames also have trouble getting through the closely-packet vanes on the JetBoil, resulting in poor gas flow and thus poor combustion, hence the sooting.Mar 26, 2013 at 9:41 am #1969710
Daniel, I think Ti or Al shouldn't matter (the importance of the differnent materials will likely be much smaller than the other vaiables in this test).
I have been meaning to make a cone/windscreen for the HTX pot I have for some time now. I also happen to have an IMUSA mug that is nearly identical in diameter as the HTX pot (olicamp something). I can test this with the alcohol burner I have.
Kevin, I have a feeling the HTX fins would have to be obscenely large (relative to the combustion gas crossectional area) before the negative effect you mention would be possible.Mar 26, 2013 at 9:52 am #1969712
Also, I have "experimented" with using a HTX pot on a canister stove using a suspended windscreen design – with the stove throttled way down.
I noticed a definite improvement from adding the close fitting windscreen — infact, combustion gases cooled enough such that water was condensing on the side of the cookpot after adding the windscreen.
With the alcohol set up I am playing with now I still notice significant heat coming out of the cone. The best I am able to get on fuel effeciency is ~60%(heat required)/(actual fuel energy burned).
The sooting issue might be the real failure of this combo – because of HTX fouling rendering the fins much less useful.Mar 26, 2013 at 11:30 am #1969751
Kevin BeedenBPL Member
> Just a gentle clarification. The setup I'm working on is for esbits not alcohol.
Yes, I know…
But alcohol and Ebsit are both low-power compared to a gas burner, and I find they behave quite similarly when it comes to air supply and hot gas flow requirements. So, whilst I haven't tried Esbit tabs with a JetBoil, I thought the alcohol experience might be useful.
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