sleep

[David Wills]

A problem I have when trying to sleep is that I usually get into camp late and still have lots of blood pumping and need time to relax before going to bed.
There are a few 'natural' things you can do to help you go to sleep. I am a huge hydration advocate and believe that drinking water can fix nearly anything. I have found that drinking a half liter to over a liter of water right before bed can really knock you out.
changes in your dinner or nighttime snack habits could also help you sleep- look for foods high in tryptophan and melatonin. Chicken, Turkey, and Tuna are common packable meats you could eat that are high in tryptophan. taking a multivitamin in the morning would help make sure you have proper nutrition to metabolise it (especially B6 for tryptophan). Sadly, tofu is extremely high in tryptophan, but its tofu. Some nuts and seeds are a good source to, like pumkin, soy, and sesame.
lastly, hammock camping helps me sleep like a baby.

Good luck

[Alec Muthig]

Keep moving along for 24+ hours straight. When you finally stop you'll be lucky to pull out your bag before you fall asleep. Heck, I've fallen asleep mid-sentence after doing this. Even right now I'm………………..

[Colleen Clemens]

if you sleep well at home and on the trail, kudos to you. i don't. my sleep patterns are erratic, frequently interrupted, and don't settle into routine well. i'm also a mother of young children, which means i shouldn't really expect a full night's sleep for another 10 or so years. hopefully by then i won't suffer from insomnia anymore.

people have been self-medicating for thousands of years. who discovered the first alcoholic drink (a substance i don't take, btw)? indigenous peoples use all manner of hallucinogenics & barbiturates. living a "natural lifestyle" includes ingesting all manner of stuff that affects the body one way or another.

[John Baird]

This is a great thread with so many opinions. I think such topics are the thing that keeps me coming back.
Last year four of us did a short week in the Lake Placid (racket river area) after kayaking for 9 hours and hiking inland for another 2, we were exhausted. Set up camp, didn't sleep a wink. Certainly not for the lack of exercise or sun. Around 2 pm we did a few shots of 'Chivas'. And yes I know that alcohol and hiking really should be kept separate but sleep was so good.
My point, which agrees with many and disagrees with just as many, is that this sleep thing is not unusual (in the least) and we deal with it as best we can.

[Ken Helwig]

I love a little single malt scotch one night out of the trip. Quite relaxing and enjoyable. Nothing better than watching alpineglow and enjoying an adult beverage.

[Kim Grant]

I'm an insomniac and find that my first defense is a great pair of earplugs. Get the highest decible rating you can find. I hate the wax-coated cotton — go for the spongy kind.

Second defence is a half-dose of ambien, but only if direly needed. It leaves me a wee bit groggy if I don't get a solid 8 or 9 hours sleep when taking it.

Earplugs work for me because they help keep me from being hyper aware of all those strange night noises that are unfamiliar, and I am able to "pretend" that I in my own bed.

[Kim Grant]

It has caffeiene in it.

[Brett .]

On last weekends trip I used what I think is in Tylenol PM, one pseudophenedrine and one NSAID (I used ibuprofin). It did help, but the storming weather did keep me awake 1/2 the night.

[David Goodyear]

A couple of things:

Caffeine, Sudafed(pseudoephedrine) are stimulants not sleep aids.

Diphendydramine is in benadryl, simply sleep, anything PM. and is an antihistamine with a side effect of drowsiness. It loses its effectiveness over time and you can have a hangover if taken too late.

Ambien CR should NEVER be cut in half. It is designed with a fast release outer coating to get you to sleep and a slow release center to keep you asleep. If you cut it you get dose dumping and get the 8 hour dose all at once – not smart. (Shame on your DR)

Prescription sleep aids are powerful and can be addicting. I know that the commercials make them seem as safe as M&M/s, but they are over-prescribed.

Sleeping in the woods is different than what your body is use to. (Unless you have a dream job like Ryan). If you need help on occasion – that’s ok, but if you need a "pill" consistently then you have a problem that requires a medical professional. Follow the directions, drugs are powerful and can be dangerous. Remember even water is lethal in overdose.

I'm not trying to preach, but inform.

Dave

P.S. I use the ear-plug method.

[larry savage]

Well, I've experimented on myself for the good of this forum. The results are, drumroll, ambien cr is lighter then the recommended dose of tylenol pm. The cr is the time release designation and, as David points out, one should never cut into a time release pill.
An interesting side note in Road magazine [cycling] by Dr.Iams points out that cyclist should not use benadryl for allergies because it impairs sweat production.
I hit a couple of links to this fact using a search engine.
So maybe someone using tylenol pm should watch out for this.

[William Siemens]

This is most interesting – had no idea there were so many with sleeping difficulties. This is truly a case where individuals can differ. For instance, Ray Jardine sez "fatigue is the most comfortable mattress." And others say likewise that if you have really done a big day you'll drop right off. But as some here have pointed out, it is also possible to be "too tired to sleep." Lots of sleep experts say exercise is mostly sleep inducing, but NOT late in our day. So what are we to do if we like to hike after dinner late into the long summer evenings? We could make camp early, sit around, and perhaps sleep better, but that's in conflict with the idea of far fast and light. We can carry a much more comfy and heavier mat – but that too contradicts the idea that less weight means less fatigue and more, easier miles. If you have a day that is one pound less burdened and are not very tired, but then aren't worth much the next day because you can't sleep on a 1/8" mat, your overall mileage is going to suffer. I get obsessed over grams too, it's my nature. But when I literally could not bend enough to put my shoes on in the morning (and after a very fitful night) I started upgrading mats. Now, I blush to admit that I'm up to 26 (gasp) ounces. I guess if I were doing the pct I'd go back to the little mat, but I'd have a long time to get used to it. For weekend or few-day trips, you don't get a chance to. As to chemicals, it seems sort of counter to my old "pinecone generation" ethos – I THINK we're supposed to drift off listening to the night sounds and smelling the air – not poleaxed into unconciousness. But that's me. But in fact I suffered from Restless Legs Syndrome for a long time and took codeine for it every night. If it comes back, or something else comes up, I'd go ahead and take that or Ambien or something. I personally don't think the over the counter sleep aids are a good idea – they're usually based on antihistamines, which dehydrate us. That's already a potential problem in hiking, esp in hot weather or at altitude.

[Hermit’s Hut]

As is apparent from the wide variety of opinions and methods in this thread, we all react different to medications. I have seen Benadryl mentioned a few times, and that seems to be the best pill to knock me out.

However, I try to avoid pills whenever I can. Alternatively, I have found that taking a journal, or anything to write on can help greatly. At the end of a long day, sleep troubles are most likely not from lack of exercise. I find that when restless, my mind is going a million miles an hour, and seemingly without reason. I take out my pen and pad and take myself back to high school.

We used to have to do "Timed writes", where for three minutes you just write as much as you can without stopping or taking your pen off the paper, all the while completely disregarding punctuation, grammar, sentence structure et cetera. This will allow all the rambling nonchalance to flee your subconscience and be placed on paper.

It sounds a bit childish, but this can be one of the most liberating exercises you can do to clear your mind. I know this isn't info about the sleep aids originally discussed, but I think it a comprable alternative and hope you give it a shot, at home or in the hills.

[John Baird]

I appreciate your points of view. I do not appreciate your need to advertise in this space.
Your reply in this thread may be acceptable by some, but I would prefer that you sign on as a person not a “hut’
If your presence here kills this thread, I will be deprived of the valued input of other BPL memmbers, I would appeal to the BPL staff and members to have you cut. I am but a party of one and it is not up to me or my opinions how the forum goes.
Just cancel your membership and re-apply as a person with an interest in back packing light.
Then I would uggest you contact the BPL staff with regard to paid advertising

Respectfully submitted, John Baird

[John Baird]

Joshua Thanks for the PM. I'll just ditto Mike, Mark and Benjamin and thank you for any positive efforts in the future.
John

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