Logic Check: Windshirt

The thin highly breathable fabric is already pretty good at dumping heat.

Your arms and ears need the most protection from the weather since they are out their waving around in the air and coming into contact with brush and things. I would sooner look at the backless camp flash anorak ( http://www.camp-usa.com/products/apparel/flash-anorak-1446.asp ) then a windshirt vest if dumping heat is your main concern.

Vests are nice as insulating layers (add warmth to the core) but this is a protection layer that adds minimal warmth.

A windshirt vest might make sense for highly aerobic activities like running in the cold with little wind where it would increase the rate of evaporation from your core without increasing the rata at which you sweat yet keep your hands/arms cold enough that you could wear gloves without sweating them out.

The veins in your forearm/wrist are close to the surface so this is an important area to protect to keep your hands warm. Same goes for the neck.

Think about how cold your hands and ears can get on biking in the cold due to the added chill from moving through the air. The windshirt is to cut this sort of chill. The windshirt is to cut this effect without overheating you so coverage of the extremities is good.

xx

I shudder to think of the consequences of a failed test…

I'll pile on as another believer in the power and awe of the windshirt.

I've been using the same Houdini for the last 6 or 7 years; it still looks brand new. It goes everywhere with me for all sorts of activities: hiking, traveling, mountain biking, running, work commute, light duty rain jacket, etc. It's easily one of my most frequently used pieces of clothing. I don't often bring a dedicated rain shell given the climate/nature of most of my trips, but I always bring the houdini.

– With the windshirt, I can hike comfortably in a long sleeve baselayer down to a bit below freezing.
– During breaks, throwing on the windshirt often provides enough warmth to keep my comfy for a short stop to eat something.
– Adding it over/under other insulated layers adds a noticeable amount of warmth.
– Works great as a light protective layer for snowy weather or light "misty" rain.
– Dropping the hood, opening up the zipper, pushing up the sleeves, etc. gives me some flexibility in terms of venting when just a baselayer is too little but adding a mid-layer would be too much.

I don't use the hood very often as it adds too much heat for me when on the go, but it sure is nice to have for sedentary time in camp.

For something so light and packable (you can compress it down to the size of a plum), it's hard for me to find fault with it.

I'm going to have to agree with the feeling that a windshirt is a luxury. It is by no means, an essential piece of gear the same way a rain jacket is: it doesn't protect you fully against rain, nor wind, but on the other hand, paired with a hard shell, it lets you fine tune your exposure to the elements and increase your comfort level dramatically. You can certainly make do without it, but the amount of comfort it adds on an ounce-by-ounce basis is incredible.

I've worn nothing more than an R1 hoody & Houdini from 20º all the way to 5º for backpacking and snowshoeing. It lets me move at a normal pace without overheating or sweating, which in turn means I need to carry and wear less insulation for when I slow down or stop. When I heat up or cool down throughout the day I can simply regulate my temperature by sliding my sleeves up and down, opening the front zipper, or wearing the hood.

In warmer months like spring and fall I'll wear the Houdini over a lightweight, long-sleeved base layer and I can continue to regulate my temperature in a similar manner. I'll even carry the Houdini into the summer, for cool nights.

More importantly for me is how it fits into a typical clothing layering system, which has radically changed the way I layer. When I used to use a hard shell as a light additional insulation layer, I would wear it and sweat in it, knowing that being waterproof, it would dry quickly when I took it off.

If I got cold, I would have to take off the hard shell, put on a mid layer, and then put the hard shell back over it. With the Houdini, I can simply slide a mid layer over it for warmth, whereas doing the same with a hard shell is far less viable due to the stiffer, less breathable material. My hard shell is then relegated for when precipitation is too much for the wind shell to handle, or if I'm above treeline or in an exposed, windy area in subfreezing conditions.

The other great thing about a hooded wind shell is, unlike just about any other material people wear in the backcountry, snow and water slips right off. If you duck under a tree branch only to dump snow or water on you, it will fall right off your windshell instead of falling down your neck or soaking into your layers.

Can anyone add some experience with wind shirts made from more water resistant materials like Windstopper or Epic? Seems these might make for a good compromise between wind shell and hard shell for day hiking. Full zips would allow for ventilation if required.

It replaces your fleece for less weight and bulk. A fleece can often be too cold in really strong winds, as well, whereas a windshirt is fine.

If you're bringing a fleece for camp warmth, that's a bit different. Most of the time, I find a fleece not warm enough for camp, at least not lightweight ones (down works a lot better). For warmer trips, I bring an Ex-Light Down Vest – when coupled with a windshirt (total 6oz), it's about as warm as a lightweight fleece under a rain jacket, but more flexible and less bulk.

It might have to do with your location, as well. In CO, I spend a great deal of time above treeline. To do so without wind protection is difficult. When exerting heavily, a rain jacket often does not breath enough.

"Can anyone add some experience with wind shirts made from more water resistant materials like Windstopper or Epic?"

They would be too hot/sweaty for moving. Epic for a rain shell, yes, but the strength of a windshirt is in providing wind protection while remaining breathable.

Windstopper is great for gloves and beanies, but all the tops I have seen were just sweaty and heavy, not to mention expensive. Once you are stopped, it doesn't provide much warmth other than blocking wind. It's just another kind of soft shell fabric, with all the weaknesses.

You guys were right.

Tell your sister…. You were riiight…..

"It replaces your fleece for less weight and bulk. A fleece can often be too cold in really strong winds, as well, whereas a windshirt is fine."

I think a windshirt and fleece make a perfect paring. You basically have a a breathable insulated jacket that you can wear all together or one of the separated layers. Good fluffy breathable fleece has poor wind resistance but is warm when used with wind or rain shell, or for sleep. Fleece is fine around camp to take a little chill off if there is no wind. Fleece packs poorly and doesn't have the loft of down for below freezing weather, but it is the best stuff for cool wet weather.

Doesn't the fluffy fleece have much more warmth for the weight than the windproof stuff?

Dale, thanks for the feedback on my question about more water resistant fabrics. You wrote:

"Windstopper is great for gloves and beanies, but all the tops I have seen were just sweaty and heavy, not to mention expensive. Once you are stopped, it doesn't provide much warmth other than blocking wind. It's just another kind of soft shell fabric, with all the weaknesses."

The fabric I was referring to is the windstopper active shell material. While I agree, it looks rather pricey, it's not a typical soft shell in the sense of what I think of a soft shell to be. Gore advertises it as more breathable than WPB Active Shell, but not water proof. And I believe it's air permeable – unlike typical gore membrane. Jackets are available in the 4oz range, putting them in the same league (in terms of weight and pack-ability) as the other windshirts mentioned here.

Thanks for the words on Epic fabric. Never handled it personally, only heard of it. I remember looking at a Wild Things shell made of the fabric a few years ago.

Sitting here with a brand new Montane Lite-speed jacket, I sort of have my decision process fresh in mind:

My walks are in the mountains of Norway (sidetracking into Sweden). Mostly the weather is impossible to predict, but one thing is a safe bet: wind and most likely something howling out of Siberia.

My previous walking jacket is a very nice soft-shell that weighs in at 680 grams and takes lots of volume. It stops wind and breaths great. It also add a bit of warmth and water-resistance (15 minutes in light drizzle). These last two points are already covered by an insulating mid-layer, a wool shirt, an umbrella and a bomb-proof poncho.

The way I see it, the wind-shirt gives me a lighter, trimmer pack and better options on windy days. There is a sacrifice at the lower end of the temperature scale, but that is what the rest of the gear in the pack is for.

It is a specialized item, but given that the rest of my clothing system is specialized as well, one might throw out the jacket of all trades (but it comes back on in winter).

By the way; Montane Lite-speed jackets seem to run small in sizing. I'm happy in U.S. Medium, but Large is a snug fit with this one.

Here is my take on it: In most cases it is a luxury. So is a pillow (use a rock-stone like Bob Marley). But it is a very light luxury item that comes in handy for a lot of uses:

1) As mentioned, as a compliment to a poncho. This is a very light system that can provide protection for wind, rain and bugs. Unless you are carrying breathable Cuben, this is probably the lightest system that provides really good protection for all three.

2) It compliments fleece for day hikes. For a lot of my day hikes, I bring a fleece jacket and a windshirt. I leave the rain jacket at home if the forecast calls for 0% chance of rain. Worse case scenario I high tail it down the trail to my car (I always bring a rain jacket when backpacking).

2B) The same combination works great for skiing. I sweat a lot going uphill, so the fleece is usually just fine. But if it is really coming down (especially as slush) then I'll throw on the windshirt. When I go downhill, I'll probably have both a windshirt and down jacket on.

3) It adds a middle layer when combined with a puffy jacket and rain jacket. A very lightweight puffy jacket (like the Cocoon Hoody) is much warmer than a fleece jacket of a similar weight. Because it is much warmer, you can get by with a lighter sleeping bag. The drawback is that a puffy jacket is often too warm. In other words, you are too cold for just a base layer, and too warm if you put on your puffy jacket. The windshirt solves this problem by providing a nice middle warmth.

In all these cases it provides a much more comfortable layer than a rain jacket, which means that when I use it for bug or wind protection, I am a lot more comfortable. As mentioned, it is way more durable than Propore, which means I am a lot less likely to damage my gear.

I just got my houdini yesterday and went out for a walk in the neighborhood today in blizzard conditions. Merino wool base layer, houdini, and a Patagonia syn pullover and I was perfectly comfortable while not even really exerting myself. Temps at 19 degrees and 30-40 mph winds with lots of dry snow falling.

Im excited to try it out some more and bummed I havnt until now!