Dri Down, Does it work?

My question is, what happens to the "Dri" treatment after the item has been washed three or four times? Unless extensive tests have been done, it's going to be a number of years down the road (pun unintentional) before we know about this factor!

Good question.

PRO> Down garments are usually not washed often, esp. down bags.

CON> DWR traditionally does not last long with repeated washings.

Sooo… are these Dri Down and Down Tech treatments longer lasting due either to their chemistry or deposition method, or both?

Richard N. did some testing and has some insight here:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=72030&startat=20

Summary: sounds like most of the DWR downs offer a pretty modest improvement, but Patagonia's Encapsil treatment is legit.

Mary,

The treatment isn't a spray. it's a polymer that molecularly bonds to the surface. Washing should have little effect, but abrasion (feathers scraping on one another) might over time.

Contrary to popular belief, the feathers are NOT treated with DWR, or anything similar in quality to it.

I asked this question about five days ago. Apparently the verdict is still mostly out.

I gave up trying to talk about this subject because people get the different types of down mixed up. The actual DriDown: http://www.dridown.com/
and Downtek: http://www.down-tek.com is a nano-tech application and are different from what Zpacks and other small companies are using from Allied which is a DWR treatment.

I've seen the "real" stuff in action and am quite impressed but I know nothing about what you are asking. There is not enough out yet so your digging and watching for info will be just as fast as anybody else's at this point.

I know BGT is supposed to get some gear this spring that is using it and they will be put to 4-month tests so at least some real-world long-term use will be taking place, we just need to wait for it.

On this subject, I read online that the company Aeon Clad, which is the maker of Patagonia's Encapsil down, uses a "plasma" process, and can result in "1000 fill power" hydrophobic down.

I noticed that the recently announced ultra-lite 5.2 oz jacket by MontBell just happens to have "1000 fill power" down, and just happens to be called the "Plasma".
I'm thinking they might be using this Aeon Clad technologies with those kinds of "coincidences".

Hi Tom,

This was talked about on another thread last week, I am sure if Montbell was using Dwr down they would be shouting it from the roof tops.

Hi all,

Anyway back on track, I received a gift of a Brooks Range Mojave Jacket last week which I will be testing out, I am slightly underwhelmed by the loft compared to another down Parka I have with the same amount of down (800 vs 900fp though).

Patagonia Encapsil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIaWk0b8Jro

I'd wait myself–looks like the technology is not there yet and the lifespan of the down (loft) is likely less than regular down.

define "work"

what is the expectation?

Is it slightly more difficult to wet out, yes.

Will it not get wet at all, no.

Does the treatment wash off in about 10 washings? Thats what Ive heard.

Will you consider 800-Fill? On sale here: http://www.leftlanesports.com/Product.aspx?l=00010088192500000000&p=SDE01524&et=lls&sc=00010088192500500000&s=00000

"I gave up trying to talk about this subject because people get the different types of down mixed up. The actual DriDown: http://www.dridown.com/
and Downtek: http://www.down-tek.com is a nano-tech application and are different from what Zpacks and other small companies are using from Allied which is a DWR treatment."

Not currently. Allied Hyperdry IS a nano application now.

To me, the biggest question mark that still remains is whether the treated down is as durable a non-treated (i.e. regular down). Since well cared for non-treated down normally lasts for decades (which is one of its greatest assets), we won't really know a definitive answer to this question for many years.

It's basically a guessing game at this point as far as I can tell. Anyone who has tried to convince me otherwise seems to be selling the stuff and is therefore highly biased.

Down is naturally hydrophobic to begin with (remember, it comes from water fowl), so the treated down technology seems like a fairly marginal advantage to me in practice.

We also don't know how the treated down handles washing versus regular down.

I'm trying to remain open minded about treated down, but my gut impression so far is that its mostly an up-selling strategy by gear and apparel companies to try and get you to spend even more money on (already expensive) down products.

Until proven otherwise, I'm not biting. I've never had a problem with down getting wet in the first place (I prefer to only use it for sleeping bags), so this treated down is a solution in search of a problem for me personally, but YMMV.

I'm most concerned with longer term reliability. Will the down still loft after 5 years of use or does the treatment negatively affect the longevity of the down (as you pointed out). The cost is pretty reasonable, however. Maybe $20 additional for a sleeping bag.

> can result in "1000 fill power" hydrophobic down.

Why do I immediately think 'marketing creep'?

Can I predict that in 5 years time we will see claims of 2000 fill down?

Which is why we now use the EN standard for actually measuring sleeping bag warmth – and American bag mfrs are now known to be over-estimationg their gear by up to 15 C. Yes, that has been measured. Ditto some American pack mfrs with their claimed pack volumes which are way over what we have measured.

Cheers

"Down is naturally hydrophobic to begin with (remember, it comes from water fowl)"

Right. So how is it that geese and ducks don't have the same issues with damp down as sleeping bags and quilts?

Because of the outer feathers? Because when still attached to their bodies they can fluff em out?

> how is it that geese and ducks don't have the same issues with damp down as sleeping
> bags and quilts?
> Because of the outer feathers? Because when still attached to their bodies they can
> fluff em out?
They spend a lot of time preening: cleaning all their feathers and re-oiling them.
They have a hot body inside all the time drying the down out.
They fluff them out every day to dry them.
They have outer feathers which act as a waterproof but breathable layer.
They renew their feathers and down every year.
They (ducks anyhow) don't live as long as a down bag.

Cheers