Packrafting – Wind Rivers – 4/15/07

[Richard Nisley]

Ryan – I have a Patagonia Specter (L) pullover. I tested it with the MTI Livery (ML) PFD today. For both warm weather and cold weather modes, I added two wide rubber bands (previously held broccoli together) to closely seal the Specter wrists from paddle drip.

For warm weather, the Specter can be worn on the inside of the PFD and the neck vented. The top strap of the PFD can be worn fairly loose to further facilitate convection cooling. The Specter's kangaroo pocket, for safety gear, is still easily accessible. It lines up even with the bottom of the PFD and negates the requirement for a pocket on the PFD.

For cold weather, the Specter easily fits over the PFD. This mode adds considerable warmth by creating an additional layer of dead air space and makes the most of the insulating qualities of the PFD. This mode adds about as much warmth as a fleece sweater without the issues of having this layer wet when you need it after paddling. Obviously the kangaroo pocket is accessible in this mode also.

I haven't tried this yet but, using an inverted partially deflated packraft with the PFD and pack under it for insulation should eliminate the requirement to carry an insulation pad.

[john flanagan]

Roman – This all works for me (sort of) in the context of low-volume / low technical difficulty water. It seems that the critical question becomes, "If I have to swim, how far am I likely to be swept and what are the downstream risks?" I've always found it tough enough to swim with my paddle in one hand and boat painter in the other without adding complications.

Another thing to think about is that your ability to assess risk in whitewater grows quickly with experience, but is almost non-existent without it. What looks big may be easy and what looks easy may be followed by a big honking pour-over right… around…that…corner…

SO – I'd caution those without experience to avoid using this approach until you can actually assess what you're looking at and have developed a "what's downstream" mindset.

In other conversations, its come up in the context of big lake travel using folding boats. In some ways, I think that is even riskier – mostly because the perception of risk is often altered and immersion time can be longer. It's especially easy to get sucker punched going downwind (it's harder to judge wave size looking at their backside and they can grow/steepen quickly with reach or bottom shape) and crossing lakes with islands and bays combined with long open reaches (waves grow in compressed passages).

[John S.]

Richard, were you able to confirm a weight on a Seda adult pfd mentioned over at paddling.net in response to your question about pfds?

http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/browse.cfm/4,127.htm

[Richard Nisley]

My correspondence relative to this topic was as follows:

From: Jim Koutras [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:56 AM
To: 'Richard Nisley'
Subject: RE: Seda Life Vest

HI Richard, the PFD weighs about 2+ pounds. It's a pretty tall vest, best for rec kayaking or canoeing.

Thanks

________________________________________
From: Richard Nisley [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Seda Life Vest

What is the weight of your size Large (40 -45" chest) life vest? Is the length short enough to use with a spray skirt?

Richard Nisley

[Erin McKittrick]

I used to use the pad under the coat technique. The main problem with this is that the zipper on the coat can fail catastrophically – sending the sleeping pad sailing across the water away from the swimmer. This has happened to a friend of mine.

However, with an iron and a few straps and buckles, a sleeping pad can be turned into a much more stable and comfortable PFD.

It's still a homemade solution – but much more trustworthy. Particularly in open water, where puncture is much less of a concern. Good enough for me anyway – we're taking these thermarest versions for our 4000 mile walking/skiing/packrafting trip up the northern Pacific Coast

I've got some pictures of the process to make one of these here on my blog: Making thermarest life vests

[John S.]

Thanks Richard. Boy was that ad off by saying less than one pound…

[Richard Nisley]

Erin – I have one major reservation about Hig's creation. It is not the flotation potential… that seems to be adequate. My major reservation is the apparent absence of multiple strong attachment points at the bottom of the makeshift PFD.

I packraft, whitewater kayak, ocean kayak, and surf kayak, in addition to backpack. From my experience, occasionally you will get catapulted out of the packraft do to an ocean surf dump or a whitewater wave/hole. The Thermarest will want to go up and you will want to go down which will probably result in something giving. The arm cut-outs will initially keep the Thermarest from moving up on the sides but, the front looks like it will pull apart at the bottom and then slip over your head… gasp…gurgle…gurgle.

I strongly suggest that you go to your local swimming pool and jump off the low board a few times with your Thermarest PFD attached as shown in the pictures and your hands holding a paddle – not the PFD. Please post what happens?

What tool did Hig use to reseal the Thermarest?

[Erin McKittrick]

It's hard to see the straps in the picture – the two straps are crossed (one corner of the front goes to the opposite rear shoulder). When crossed and tightened down – it cannot come up over the head inverted (not even with me sticking both arms straight up, and Hig trying to wriggle and tug it off).
That said, it would be trivial to add another strap at the base (or the middle – if you add one to the very base it interferes with the packrafting position for those of us with shorter torsos).
I'll see if I can find a local pool.

The resealing tool is a little iron for heat sealing.

It is difficult to completely get it with that. Usually we end up with a few small leaks after resealing, which we patch with aquaseal.

[Scott Peterson]

Thanks Richard! Definitely worth looking into. My trip to the Trinities last year reinforces the beauty that you reference. I am not looking to get into daring water or push the envelope with packrafts…but would love to be able to travel in areas where trails are not present…and use packrafts as an alternative…at some point in the distant future. It would also be really cool to use them for fishing backcountry lakes…and getting a perspective on those environments even fewer folks have had the opportunity to see. Packrafts seem to have the potential to add new dimensions to backcountry experiences.

[Mark Solberg]

Packrafting is a developing niche in wilderness travel. Most of the information available is on the web, few print resources are available yet. If you are an experienced backpacker, and can paddle a canoe or kayak on a class of water, you will have no trouble paddling a packraft on the same water. Packrafts are excellent for rivers that have flow, and the paddling required is mostly for directional control.

I live in the midwest, and local packrafting is alot like floating a river with an innertube. My whitewater skills are not very developed. I look for rivers that routinely have tour groups using canoes, rafts, kayaks and use established put in and takeout locations.

I forked over the cash for an Alpacka 2 years ago, using it first on popular canoe float trip routes near home (Current River in MO, Sugar Creek in IN, Sangamon River in IL). Then bought a second Alpacka for my wife last year before our Alaska trip. We spent a week floating the Kongakut River through the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We were blessed with good weather, and the trip exceeded our wildest dreams. Drysuits and spraydecks expand the limits of packrafting far beyond the local river tubing experience, and we still enjoy the local rivers too!

Packrafts do add new dimensions to the backcountry experience. Choose easy routes to start with, and then explore more advanced locations, in time you'll have the experience and wisdom needed to tackle most rivers….rapids and other obstacles are easily portaged around with a 4 lb packraft.

[John S.]

I checked out the MTI Livery. The padding on the sides and that padding coming up fairly high towards the armpit seems like a possible irritation in paddling long hours in a day.

[Matthew Monson]

It seems better to me to use the PFD (and/or the packraft)as a sleeping pad, not the other way around. It works well and is a lot safer.

I'll definitely check out the MTI Livery. I've been searching for the perfect packrafting PFD and I really don't want to use an inflatable in whitewater.

For low-risk floats the aerovest that Ryan reviewed is intriguing. I'll get one to test but I have my doubts that it will inspire confidence.

[Richard Nisley]

I use and recommend the following PFD options for packrafting. All carry weights are applicable to 45" chest models (L/XL):

-For very hot weather and non WW packrafting, the SOS waist inflatable is .88 lbs is a good solution.

-For cold weather or very low risk white water (class 2+) or I use the MTI Livery for its low .9 lbs weight and 15.6 lb floatation. I find the high cut under the arms, which one BPL reviewer found uncomfortable, is a positive feature when in the water. It prevents the PFD from riding up and my head going under water. If the PFD didn’t have this firm connection under my arms, I would have to cinch the waist very tightly. For me this is even more uncomfortably constraining and hotter in warm weather. The biggest issue I have with this PFD is that it is made of Urethane foam rather than PVC foam. Although lighter, urethane foam is less comfortable to sleep on than PVC foam.

-Seda used to manufacture a PFD which some of their retailers advertised as being low weight. They still had a couple of sizes in stock and so I emailed their Customer Service department to ask the PFD weight in size L/XL. They told me it weighed over two lbs and so I dropped this PFD from consideration. A few months later I found one to weigh… surprise it was only 1.06 lbs in my size. This made it .16 lb heavier than the MTI livery but it used PVC foam and the floatation value was 22 lbs. The PVC foam makes it a very comfortable sleep pad. The added floatation keeps my head from going under the aerated white water as frequently when swimming whitewater. I ordered mine from http://www.boundarywaterscatalog.com/browse.cfm/4,127.htm They still have them in inventory. It is made of small pieces of foam 3x1x1.25in that are inserted into vertical quilted baffles. It is a no frills PFD by today's standards. None the less, Ryan would be happy about their two large pockets. The small foam pieces make it very adaptable. It conforms to the body tightly and when worn under a windshirt is very warm, rolled tight it makes a good pillow; laid flat it's a good sitting/sleeping pad. For warm weather I wear my windshirt under the PFD. The spacing between the foam allows adequate ventilation to stay cool. For moderate to high risk white water it is my NEW most favorite packrafting PFD.

[John S.]

nm

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