Montbell Plasma 1000

[Richard Nisley]

Wow. You've gotta hold this jacket to believe it. It's 5.2-ounce down sweater, stuffed full of 1,000-fill down, and wrapped in a 7-denier ripstop fabric. That's the highest quality down we've ever seen, so lofty we would have been skeptical without seeing it for ourselves stacked next to its 800- and 900-fill competition. Montbell won't say where the down comes from, but it has magically appeared in a down sweater that was light enough to be held aloft by a balloon in the company's booth, and light enough that when dropped, it does not fall. It drifts downward. $269.

Source:http://www.gearinstitute.com/best-in-class/item/best-of-outdoor-retailer-awards

[Eugene Smith]

Wild.

The baffles are very unique.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Montbell is stealthy

How many oz down? 2.2 or whatever like the UL series?

[Colin Krusor]

That's amazing, but, I have to admit, as much as I have an aversion to anything trendy, I would be more impressed, and more tempted to buy it, if it contained water resistant down. It makes me cringe to say it, but we were all thinking it.

[Eugene Smith]

No interest in the hydrophobic down on my end. I'm more interested in stupid light for extremely arid, but brisk, conditions.

[Peter S]

How much of the 5.2 oz is down?

[Ryan Smith]

Nice. Me likey. Too much money new, but hopefully someone throws a slightly used one out in Gear Swap! XL please.

Ryan

[Trill Daddy]

Methinks it uses the Encapsil stuff by Patagonia…

[Colin Krusor]

Babak, I assume you're joking.

[Trill Daddy]

Yea, I was certainly joking..

[josh wagner]

that thing looks pretty dope. the balloon clothes hanger is solid…

[Craig Delger]

I am on my way out the door so I will keep this short. They don't state how much down is in the jacket, but the Plasma most likely has 1.6 ounces of what they quote as 1000 power fill down.

Our position is that 1000 fill down doesn't really exist in practicality.

In order to get a 1000 fill rating the down is measured in zero percent humidity, and the down has to be fluffed with warm air.

The instant it comes in contact with something humid… like your skin it loses loft and loses its 1000 power fill rating.

The Plasma uses a 7×7 fabric(7 denier with 7 ripstop), weighs 5.2 ounces and cost $269.

The Montbell Extremely Light Down Jacket uses 1.8 ounces of 900 fill down, uses a 7×10 fabric(7 denier with 10 ripstop), weighs 5.6 ounces, and costs $189.

In ProLiteGear.com's opinion, the Montbell Plasma is a marketing piece, the Extremely Light Down Jacket is a better option.

[James holden]

Ryan Jordan
( ryan – BPL STAFF – M)

Locale:
Greater Yellowstone

NEW Re: Re: Re: Introduction to Outdoor Retailer Summer Market 2008 on 08/10/2008 08:04:56 MDT

Bill et al.,

I spoke at length with IDFL yesterday about down testing.

None of their tests stimulate real world testing. 900 fp in a test is going to be a pipe dream in the field, because they steam wash and dry the down to nearly zero humidity before doing the test. Ironically, this most recent iteration of test methods was designed to determine the maximum possible fill power for down rather than what it will look like in the field.

Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.

The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=39920

[Colin Krusor]

Craig, thanks for that. It does seem that the Plasma and the Ex Light are essentially equivalent, and the much higher price tag of the Plasma is hard to justify.

Also, this isn't important, but a fabric that is described as 7 x 7 has 7 denier yarns in the warp and 7 denier yarns in the fill (or "weft"). I don't know what "7 ripstop" would mean (it isn't ripstop if the "ripstop" yarns are the same size as the rest of the yarns).

[Craig Delger]

Ryan – we agree 100%!!!!

Thank you for confronting "marketing" with the real world. :)

Craig
ProLiteGear.com

[Richard Nisley]

What Ryan and Craig are missing is the POSSIBILITY that the MB Plasma's 1000 FP is achieved by the AeonClad Technology, or similar, process rather than non-sustainable conditioning. The scheduled March 2013 release of the 1000 FP Patagonia Belay jacket will be the first customer shipments of this technology, except for Babak's early version (smile). Until these jackets are independently lab tested for clo-value at various moisture levels, manufactures and pundits claims are just that.

[Brendan Swihart]

Hey Richard,
We know from your testing that down maintains its full warmth when compressed to a certain point. Does that hold true for down that is "compressed" due to loft lost from moisture? Or is that totally different from compression?

[Richard Nisley]

It is totally different.

[James holden]

one would think that if this was DWR down, montbell would be advertising it to the wazooos …

or maybe those japanese dont understand marketing ;)

[Trill Daddy]

I wonder how they get 1000 FP without the AeonCloud coating?

Are they just killing geese by the handful to get the few, "primo" 1000FP feathers?

[Craig Delger]

Colin, I am going by the Montbell dealer workbook I have in front of me, and by what Brad was told when he was given the line preview at the buying show(Outdoor Retailer).

The dealer workbook lists
* 7-denier Ballistic Airlight rip-stop nylon shell.

Brad was told at the line preview that it was "7×7 ripstop"… which as you point out would not be possible. However, they could double up the threads for the "warp" or something. Brad felt the fabric and said he couldn't detect an obvious ripstop. It will be interesting to get the fabric under a magnifying glass to see what is truly going on.

Craig

[Craig Delger]

Richard,

While it is POSSIBLE that the MB Plasma's 1000 FP is achieved by the AeonClad Technology, or similar, process rather than non-sustainable conditioning…

it is not mentioned in the dealer workbook, nor was it mentioned at the line preview.

I am not ruling it out… but it doesn't seem likely given that it isn't called out in the workbook nor during the line preview.

Craig

[Author]

Posts