Feb 2, 2013 at 8:09 pm #1298782
Wow. You've gotta hold this jacket to believe it. It's 5.2-ounce down sweater, stuffed full of 1,000-fill down, and wrapped in a 7-denier ripstop fabric. That's the highest quality down we've ever seen, so lofty we would have been skeptical without seeing it for ourselves stacked next to its 800- and 900-fill competition. Montbell won't say where the down comes from, but it has magically appeared in a down sweater that was light enough to be held aloft by a balloon in the company's booth, and light enough that when dropped, it does not fall. It drifts downward. $269.Feb 2, 2013 at 9:22 pm #1950235
@eugeneiusLocale: Nuevo Mexico
The baffles are very unique.Feb 2, 2013 at 9:27 pm #1950237
@woodenwizardLocale: Greater Mt Tabor
Montbell is stealthy
How many oz down? 2.2 or whatever like the UL series?Feb 3, 2013 at 10:04 am #1950317
That's amazing, but, I have to admit, as much as I have an aversion to anything trendy, I would be more impressed, and more tempted to buy it, if it contained water resistant down. It makes me cringe to say it, but we were all thinking it.Feb 3, 2013 at 10:25 am #1950327
@eugeneiusLocale: Nuevo Mexico
No interest in the hydrophobic down on my end. I'm more interested in stupid light for extremely arid, but brisk, conditions.Feb 3, 2013 at 2:12 pm #1950432
How much of the 5.2 oz is down?Feb 3, 2013 at 3:11 pm #1950464
Nice. Me likey. Too much money new, but hopefully someone throws a slightly used one out in Gear Swap! XL please.
RyanFeb 4, 2013 at 1:54 pm #1950745
Methinks it uses the Encapsil stuff by Patagonia…Feb 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm #1950749
Babak, I assume you're joking.Feb 5, 2013 at 2:13 pm #1951101
Yea, I was certainly joking..Feb 5, 2013 at 2:46 pm #1951111
that thing looks pretty dope. the balloon clothes hanger is solid…Feb 5, 2013 at 3:11 pm #1951120
I am on my way out the door so I will keep this short. They don't state how much down is in the jacket, but the Plasma most likely has 1.6 ounces of what they quote as 1000 power fill down.
Our position is that 1000 fill down doesn't really exist in practicality.
In order to get a 1000 fill rating the down is measured in zero percent humidity, and the down has to be fluffed with warm air.
The instant it comes in contact with something humid… like your skin it loses loft and loses its 1000 power fill rating.
The Plasma uses a 7×7 fabric(7 denier with 7 ripstop), weighs 5.2 ounces and cost $269.
The Montbell Extremely Light Down Jacket uses 1.8 ounces of 900 fill down, uses a 7×10 fabric(7 denier with 10 ripstop), weighs 5.6 ounces, and costs $189.
In ProLiteGear.com's opinion, the Montbell Plasma is a marketing piece, the Extremely Light Down Jacket is a better option.Feb 5, 2013 at 3:27 pm #1951124
( ryan – BPL STAFF – M)
NEW Re: Re: Re: Introduction to Outdoor Retailer Summer Market 2008 on 08/10/2008 08:04:56 MDT
Bill et al.,
I spoke at length with IDFL yesterday about down testing.
None of their tests stimulate real world testing. 900 fp in a test is going to be a pipe dream in the field, because they steam wash and dry the down to nearly zero humidity before doing the test. Ironically, this most recent iteration of test methods was designed to determine the maximum possible fill power for down rather than what it will look like in the field.
Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.
The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.Feb 5, 2013 at 3:31 pm #1951126
Craig, thanks for that. It does seem that the Plasma and the Ex Light are essentially equivalent, and the much higher price tag of the Plasma is hard to justify.
Also, this isn't important, but a fabric that is described as 7 x 7 has 7 denier yarns in the warp and 7 denier yarns in the fill (or "weft"). I don't know what "7 ripstop" would mean (it isn't ripstop if the "ripstop" yarns are the same size as the rest of the yarns).Feb 5, 2013 at 3:31 pm #1951127
Ryan – we agree 100%!!!!
Thank you for confronting "marketing" with the real world. :)
ProLiteGear.comFeb 5, 2013 at 4:27 pm #1951147
What Ryan and Craig are missing is the POSSIBILITY that the MB Plasma's 1000 FP is achieved by the AeonClad Technology, or similar, process rather than non-sustainable conditioning. The scheduled March 2013 release of the 1000 FP Patagonia Belay jacket will be the first customer shipments of this technology, except for Babak's early version (smile). Until these jackets are independently lab tested for clo-value at various moisture levels, manufactures and pundits claims are just that.Feb 5, 2013 at 4:33 pm #1951149
@brendansLocale: Fruita CO
We know from your testing that down maintains its full warmth when compressed to a certain point. Does that hold true for down that is "compressed" due to loft lost from moisture? Or is that totally different from compression?Feb 5, 2013 at 4:43 pm #1951153
It is totally different.Feb 5, 2013 at 5:50 pm #1951179
one would think that if this was DWR down, montbell would be advertising it to the wazooos …
or maybe those japanese dont understand marketing ;)Feb 5, 2013 at 9:16 pm #1951244
I wonder how they get 1000 FP without the AeonCloud coating?
Are they just killing geese by the handful to get the few, "primo" 1000FP feathers?Feb 6, 2013 at 9:54 am #1951364
Colin, I am going by the Montbell dealer workbook I have in front of me, and by what Brad was told when he was given the line preview at the buying show(Outdoor Retailer).
The dealer workbook lists
* 7-denier Ballistic Airlight rip-stop nylon shell.
Brad was told at the line preview that it was "7×7 ripstop"… which as you point out would not be possible. However, they could double up the threads for the "warp" or something. Brad felt the fabric and said he couldn't detect an obvious ripstop. It will be interesting to get the fabric under a magnifying glass to see what is truly going on.
CraigFeb 6, 2013 at 9:56 am #1951366
While it is POSSIBLE that the MB Plasma's 1000 FP is achieved by the AeonClad Technology, or similar, process rather than non-sustainable conditioning…
it is not mentioned in the dealer workbook, nor was it mentioned at the line preview.
I am not ruling it out… but it doesn't seem likely given that it isn't called out in the workbook nor during the line preview.
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