Jan 23, 2013 at 8:54 pm #1298348
Rocky, loose, sandy soil in many alpine areas. What stakes do you use? Right now I have the aluminum Easton stakes for my TT stratospire but I need something better that is not heavier.
What do you use?Jan 23, 2013 at 9:21 pm #1946643
Bob BankheadBPL Member
@wandering_bobLocale: Oregon, USA
Depends on your shelter type. For example, tarps need longer stakes for the ridgline tieouts but can use shorter stakes for the edges. Free-standing tents can use short, lightweight shepherd's hooks since the tension is taken up by the poles, not the stakes.
I've hiked the Rockies and Cascades for years with my SMD Gatewood Cape. My stake bag contains the required number of the old 6 inch MSR Groundhogs plus two titanium nails (for really hard-packed or extremely rocky sites or to make pilot holes for the Groundhogs). The Ti nails also serve as spares should I lose a Grounhog or need a couple of extra guy-out points.
I don't use a bivy, but if I did, I'd carry 4 of the lightest Ti pegs i could find. There's no real tension on them; they're just holding the thing lightly in place.Jan 23, 2013 at 9:51 pm #1946648
Jason GBPL Member
@jasongLocale: iceberg lake
I hike 90% in the sierra and for my Hexamid i use 3 vargo ascent V shape ti stakes for the main center and 2 front
and then vargo ti sheppard stakes for the rest(6).Jan 23, 2013 at 10:17 pm #1946656
Mark VerberBPL Member
@verberLocale: San Francisco Bay Area
what the problem with your easton stakes? that is what I typically use. If you are looking for more holding power, than I would recommend msr groundhog style stakes.Jan 23, 2013 at 11:59 pm #1946667
@m-lLocale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
DAC V stakes are lighter than groundhogs and hold exceptionally.Jan 24, 2013 at 2:15 am #1946673
@oiboyroiLocale: South West US
+1 groundhogsJan 24, 2013 at 7:27 am #1946712
Nick GatelBPL Member
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
I find ground hogs work best in most situations. Some times in the desert I bring a couple snow stakes for my main lines.Jan 24, 2013 at 8:00 am #1946721
USA Duane HallBPL Member
@hikerduaneLocale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
I've been using the ti shepherds hook type stakes for years in the summer, moving to SMC in the winter depending. A rock is usually mandatory also.
DuaneJan 24, 2013 at 9:02 am #1946748
Don AmundsonBPL Member
@amrowincLocale: Southern California
I use Ti Shepard stakes supplemented with rocks occasionally since there is no lack of them in the sierras. I find I can get the Ti's in the rocky Sierra soil a lot easier than those I've seen using larger diameter stakes. A number of years ago I was using the Easton stakes and had a tough time getting them in the ground- even broke a few.Jan 24, 2013 at 9:20 am #1946756
Greg MihalikBPL Member
"…but I need something better…"
What issues are you encountering?
Can't drive them in?
Heads pop off?
If you are not in a hurry to set up, the Ti sheppard hooks are the lightest out there and the lowest volume. Add pile of rocks and you're good to go. (Terra Nova Needles are 1 gram.)
Not in a hurry and don't want to pile rocks? The new Easton Nano's. But care Is required.
Pressed for time and just "drive'em in"? Ground Hogs. Heavier. Bulkier. Bombproof.
Everything is a trade-off. Light, Stiff, Wide. Pick any two.Jan 24, 2013 at 11:12 am #1946785
Bob BankheadBPL Member
@wandering_bobLocale: Oregon, USA
FWIW, I've destroyed more than one Easton stake in the Sierra. Those hollow aluminum stakes can split apart at the point if they hit a rock directly – usually when being driven in with another rock.
I've never had a head pop off, but Eastons – at least the older ones – had a reputation for that.
I save my Eastons for low elevation hikes where it's relatively easy to just shove them into the ground. They do hold well in soft dirt, less so in sand.Jan 24, 2013 at 2:50 pm #1946875
Thanks for the ideas.
When I say better, I mean less prone to bending, able to be driven into very hard ground, stay put, end caps not coming off.
Those are the issues I've had with the eastons.Jan 24, 2013 at 3:01 pm #1946882
Where can I buy a Vargo titanium nail stake? The T-103 I believe?Jan 24, 2013 at 3:21 pm #1946893
Konrad .BPL Member
I agree that MSR ground hogs will be the easiest, no nonsense stake. That said, I've used Ti Shepard Hooks + some rocks + patience all over the Sierra with no issue.Jan 24, 2013 at 4:23 pm #1946921
David ThomasBPL Member
@davidinkenaiLocale: North Woods. Far North.
Around town, I'm usually serving very lean elk or caribou steaks. To the point that I'll coat them in olive oil so they are less dry, but still healthful. They are tasty, hormone-free, sustainably harvested, nominally free and oh such much better than moose.
But for a High Sierra BPing trip, I might go with a ribeye for all the extra fat / calories.Jan 24, 2013 at 4:28 pm #1946923
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Ti wires, every time.
Alpine soil – the grass is tough enough to hold the wires just fine.
Rocky country: pile rocks on top of the wires.
CheersJan 24, 2013 at 4:29 pm #1946924
Justin BakerBPL Member
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
I had a Caribou burger in Alaska once. It was good.Jan 24, 2013 at 8:26 pm #1947011
Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
AND… you might take an SMC snow stake for a potty trowel and use it in a particularly loose soil area.
Then there are the new (& heavier) MSR twisted Groundhogs.
If they don't hold tie on to a big rock. After all, extra cord is lighter than bigger stakes.Jan 25, 2013 at 5:42 pm #1947302
@davidmilesLocale: Eastern Sierra
3-4 ft of light cord on each tie-out and a big rock :)Feb 13, 2013 at 12:31 pm #1954001
"I hike 90% in the sierra and for my Hexamid i use 3 vargo ascent V shape ti stakes for the main center and 2 front"
Jason – Out of curiosity, what determines which stakes you use for what purpose? (So three Ti Vargo in the front of the Hexamid, five Ti Shepard in the rear?)Feb 13, 2013 at 12:49 pm #1954010
The eastern areas south of Cottonwood Pass tends to very loose, sandy soil requiring a longer and wider stake whereas those areas further north of Cottonwood Pass and higher, provide a more packed soil or shallow soil over rock slab as Konrad suggested.Feb 13, 2013 at 1:03 pm #1954022
Cayenne RedmonkBPL Member
@redmonkLocale: Greater California Ecosystem
I use two Ti stakes with my stove.
For my shelter I've found stakes to be less useful than heavier lines for tying up rocks.Feb 13, 2013 at 8:52 pm #1954206
A W (lost_01) stated: Jason – Out of curiosity, what determines which stakes you use for what purpose? (So three Ti Vargo in the front of the Hexamid, five Ti Shepard in the rear?)
I am not Jason but I will answer this.
The ZPacks Hexamid has two high-stress points, two mid-weight stress points, and four non-stress points.
For my hexamid I used:
Two 9-inch stakes for the high stress points
Two 6-inch stakes for the two mid stress points
Four ti shepard stakes for the low stress points
Remembering that the front and back are where the primary stress along the primary seam of the shelter takes place. It is along that same primary seam that one uses to point the shelter into the direction that the wind is going.
The two side stakes (mid level stress points) are the two stakes used to keep the shelter under tension and keep is form shaped. One of these two stakes can come out of the ground and the entire shelter does not fall down under most wind loads.
The four non-stress points are used for pretty much nothing more than holding out the material to give the person inside of the shelter room. The Hexamid can be setup without the use of these four additional stakes, though the hiker will loose a lot of room on the inside. Any, or all, of these four stakes can come out of the ground and the shelter should remain standing.
From a design perspective it is these facts that make the hexamid an amazingly strong shelter of you set it up correctly. Just remember that the higher the shelter goes (ie: the Solo-Plus) the higher the apex of the shelter goes and thus the more that wind is unable to deflect itself and as a result, the weaker that the shelter becomes. This is one of those decisions that far too few hikers take into consideration. Yes, the room of the SoloPlus might be nice, but it comes with the risk of a less stable shelter – as it goes for all shelters.
At the most recent BPL GGG I had the honor (and pleasure – grin) of showing a hexamid owner just how important proper stakes and proper placement of the stakes are. It was a fun time showing the hiker what different effects happen when different stakes are used in each of the different areas, and which direction wind has on them, and just how important it is to use longer guylines for the high-stress stakes. The non-stress guylines can be mere inches in length, but a longer-than-expected guyline for the two high-stress stakes/guylines can make a *huge* difference in how stable a hexamid shelter can be.Feb 13, 2013 at 10:04 pm #1954224
hey john — what 9" and 6" are you using with your hexamid?Feb 13, 2013 at 10:09 pm #1954228
tobysalz: hey john — what 9" and 6" are you using with your hexamid?
For the high-stress locations (front / rear) I used 9" Sorex Stakes – and an 8-foot piece of guyline with a micro line lock on it for the front and a 5-foot piece of guyline with a micro line lock on it for the rear.
For the mid-level stress zones (left-right primary stakes) I used 6" Sorex Stakes and a 4-foot piece of guyline with a micro line lock on them.
The non-stress zones (all six of them) I just used whatever Ti stakes I had sitting around. Guyline length of 8 inches, no micro line locks, with loops half way in the middle of each guyline.
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