Topic

over hydration


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 22 posts - 26 through 47 (of 47 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1942472
    Art …
    BPL Member

    @asandh

    I live in a state of perpetual over hydration, even when not exercising.
    I'm well aware of this, I know it's not good, but I'm powerless to stop it.
    I drink too much water,
    I carry too much when I run,
    perhaps it's the constant state of intoxicated grogginess that I crave.
    a much cheaper high than booze or drugs.

    #1942486
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    So really we are all saying the same thing. The author is describing (at least according to this blog post that boils it down quite nicely) exactly what the current best practices are.

    You don't need to overload on fluids, you do need to replace glucose (which your brain cannot store) and for PROLONGED exertion it is a good idea to think about replacing potassium and sodium. No need to drink a gallon of Gatorade if you are slowly jogging 3 miles.

    #1942496
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    Yeah, good article

    But color of urine is inconsistent with my experience

    Sometimes when I haven't drunk a lot I notice my urine is dark colored. I'll drink a couple pints of water over an hour and then it's light colored.

    Maybe I'm talking about moderate exercise and de-hydration and the article is talking about a higher level.

    #1942533
    Hiking Malto
    BPL Member

    @gg-man

    I found a perfect discussion of this whole topic here http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/sports-drinks-sweat-and-electrolytes.html?m=1
    I think this gets so hotly debated because we are all talking different distances, exertion levels etc. Craig actually summarized my experience perfectly. The web article I linked starts with the research that Roger referenced. It gets real interesting when you hit the blog section at the bottom. You will see that the validity of the main article goes away as you start hitting higher duration and more extreme conditions. I actually think high mileage backpackers have more in common in this area with ultra marathon runners than they do with the more typical 10 mile/day hikers. I discovered how much I let my personal bias influence what I was reading. I made a conscious effort to those aside and focus on the superficial points being made. One key one was "drink when you are thirty and eat salty foods when you get the craving. ". Sounds like Nicks approach. It gets much more interesting as the duration gets pushed out. A little more deliberate approach may be warranted.

    #1942544
    Art …
    BPL Member

    @asandh

    for me personally I find the drink when thirsty rule is a very bad one.
    once I'm at that point I find it very hard to turn off the thirst feeling in my brain.

    On multi hour runs I drink small amounts (one or two sips) every 15 minutes or so.
    I find I actually drink less overall using this approach.

    #1942577
    W I S N E R !
    Spectator

    @xnomanx

    +1 Art.

    On longer endurance events (faster activities like running or cycling, not hiking) the drink when thirsty/eat when hungry thing goes out the window because my stomach will often start rejecting food/drink. This happened a lot in my cycling days when I was hitting the 10-12+ hour mark in an event.

    Eating/drinking had to become a forced, timed activity. Left to my instincts and feelings, I wouldn't keep up with it because it would make me sick. But stupid-long endurance events already are so going against natural instincts/processes I suppose they're sort of an anamoly.

    #1942604
    Brian UL
    Member

    @maynard76

    Locale: New England

    What I learned from his articles was that I ,like a lot of people would confuse hydration with overheating. In other words if you are overheating drinking does very little to cool you down. You need slow down/stop rest get in the shade and pour water over your neck. Better yet take a swim in cool water. This article may be familiar to ultra runners but its good to get the message out to hikers who are not familiar with the trends in those circles and may still subscribe to the discredited advice.

    #1942605
    Eugene Smith
    BPL Member

    @eugeneius

    Locale: Nuevo Mexico

    Analysis paralysis…

    Not Buster Martin.

    "I don't drink water…no I don't drink any water in a marathon."

    "Even before I done the marathon, I had to have a fag and a pint…"

    Buster Martin- "How to Live Forever"

    #1942638
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    ^ there you go :)

    #1942659
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "Please give the highlights of the electrolyte myth. I completely eliminated all post hiking/running cramping using electrolytes."

    I, too, would like to know more about the myth, for the same reason that Mike and Greg have stated. Nick, as well. Since I started using ~1/4 teaspoon of Mortons Lite Salt Replacement/liter and drinking moderately as I move, I have almost completely eliminated cramping. I say almost because even then, if I do not drink enough on really strenuous hikes, I will still cramp up after I stop. Also, when it comes to backpacking, as opposed to faster endurance events where people tend to be reluctant to stop, monitoring the color of your urine is a pretty reliable indicator of your hydration status. I would also like to reemphasize what I said in my first post, based on personal experience: When engaged in an endurance event in hot weather, it is absolutely critical to drink. I learned the hard way, and it came close to costing me my life.

    #1942679
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    I wonder if all this disagreement, at least partially, stems from looking at a marathon vs looking at 8+ hour endeavors?

    a 2.5 (I wish! :))-5 hour marathon I think would elicit a different electrolyte deficit than, for example, 12 hours of running the Grand Canyon

    clearly there is danger of consuming too much water, I think everyone agrees w/ that; what dangers are there is you took a few too many salt/electrolyte pills?

    #1942686
    Hiking Malto
    BPL Member

    @gg-man

    "I wonder if all this disagreement, at least partially, stems from looking at a marathon vs looking at 8+ hour endeavors?"

    Ding ding ding….. I think we have a winner. It is not all that different than the hiker going ten miles in 12 hours declaring that protein is a good fuel. Now do it for it 30 or 40 miles in the same time. How would that turn out?

    #1942714
    Bill Segraves
    BPL Member

    @sbill9000-2

    While I do not disagree with the cautions against over-hydration, "drink when thirsty" works better for some people than it does for others. I know at least two people who routinely fail to drink for long periods of time when they're focusing on work or recreational activities. (Meaning no fluids or high water content food for well over 12 hours of routine activity, or none during over 6-8 hours of backpacking or other athletic activities.) It's hard to say whether they don't get thirsty or whether they just don't notice it, but the predictable result is dehydration (by standard clinical criteria), usually mild, but real.

    Bill S.

    #1942723
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "I wonder if all this disagreement, at least partially, stems from looking at a marathon vs looking at 8+ hour endeavors?

    a 2.5 (I wish! :))-5 hour marathon I think would elicit a different electrolyte deficit than, for example, 12 hours of running the Grand Canyon"

    Good point. The other variable I would consider is temperature. The combination of time on feet and temperature makes proper hydration and electrolyte intake crucial, IME. Adding intensity to the mix makes it even more crucial.

    #1942727
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    I remember reading that Alberto Salizar lost something like almost 4 liters of water per hour during the 84 Olympics.

    Also I think military tests show that a human at rest in the desert with temps at 120F will lose 5 liters per hour — that is without using any muscles.

    My experience is that the athlete will need to replenish body salts or whatever you want to call them. Same for hiking or working hard in the desert. The soldier at rest probably won't need any salts.

    And of course, it is variable for each individual.

    #1942736
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    Tom- I've really been paying attention to how much I drink on my runs the last year or so, in the summer (temps 60-80) I can get by a little over an hour on a single 20 oz bottle, now (temps from 10-30F) that same bottle last over two hours- definitely makes a difference

    Mike

    #1942741
    David K
    Member

    @aviddk

    Locale: SW Oregon

    Many of the studies that Noakes uses to illustrate his point are from soldiers put on forced marches in desert heat over multiple days. In some instances purposely put on low salt diets beforehand to see if that would cause issues.

    Noakes not only uses studies that he designed but also studies from researchers on the "other side." He explains why the data doesn't show what they claim it did. He worked with this data for decades. He seem fearless to look at anything that might prove he is wrong. He was so saddened by the deaths he saw after distance races due to overhydration he felt compelled to act. IIRC he said that in reviewing the records for marathons over the decades he found no record of anyone dying until the hydration recommendations started. One of the most interesting things he found was that discovering the most dehydrated person was easy because it was always the winner of the race. His point was that it obviously didn't affect their performance.

    All the comments I have seen in this thread are addressed in the book. Some that have been mentioned such as salty sweating, muscle cramping, need for salt pills or electrolytes.

    I know distance backpackers are incredible athletes but I have had the privilege of having a friend, the late Rick Sayre, who was an world class marathon runner. He is the only person to qualify for the US Olympic Marathon trials five times. in my opinion it is highly unlikely that there is any distance backpacker whose fitness could come close to world class marathoners. The demands they put on their system day after day year round makes us look like pretenders.

    The two part summary is somewhat useful but it would be like trying to outline "War and Piece" in four pages and saying you read the book. It has been six months since I read "Waterlogged" but I am considering reading it again because there is so much interest.

    #1942953
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "Tom- I've really been paying attention to how much I drink on my runs the last year or so, in the summer (temps 60-80) I can get by a little over an hour on a single 20 oz bottle, now (temps from 10-30F) that same bottle last over two hours- definitely makes a difference"

    That pretty much mirrors my experience when I was still running, Mike. There is a big difference between hydration and over hydration, and 20 oz is definitely in the zone, IMO. Do you use electrolytes in hot weather, or are you one of those fortunate souls who can do without?

    #1942959
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "My experience is that the athlete will need to replenish body salts or whatever you want to call them. Same for hiking or working hard in the desert."

    +1 To which I would add that you don't have to be in a life threatening situation to make it worthwhile. Just a good old fashioned bout of leg cramps will teach you that it is well worth while to keep your electrolyte levels up to snuff. They can really ruin your whole day.

    #1942963
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    I use them- usually an Endurolyte and a Saltstick- every hour or two; I read up on stomach distress at ultras and lot of fingers pointed at lack of Na. I experienced it headed up the South Rim on our R2R2R and my hope is not to experience it again :)

    #1942967
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    If you suspect a sodium deficiency, which works better: sodium chloride or sodium bicarbonate?

    I find the latter to be more helpful.

    –B.G.–

    #1942970
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    no clue? I have taken a glass of water/bicarbonate for acid relief and it does seem to work

Viewing 22 posts - 26 through 47 (of 47 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...