Puff Jacket Usage Philosophy

Some others on this forum may do things differently than I, but with that said I prefer my down puffy to be more robust than the "down shirts" such as the Microtherm. I use my WM Vapor jacket solely in camp to keep warm (with layers as needed) down to single digits. In the winter I'm in temps down into the 20's often, and for me at least a down shirt wouldn't be enough. The only fleece I use is the one I hike in. I carry a Thermawrap Parka for another puffy layer as well, but obviously it's not as warm as my down jacket.

For me, in 3 season conditions puffy layers are only for static insluation. They are too warm for anything but camp intensity movements. So if you are looking for something on the move then a fleece is by far the better product.

For me down to freezing while hiking I wear a long sleave shirt with a WPB shell over top. For below freezing I add an R1 clone and I am good down to around 0F.

When I stop for breaks I put on the down puffy in my case an ex light down for down to freezing, or an old heavy weight down puffy jacket for winter 15F and below and a patty down sweater? (3 oz down) in between. All of my down jackets are sized to go over top of the WPB jacket layer so I don't have to change out of a hiking layer to put on a rest layer. I don't mind the delicate shell on the ex lite at rest stops and as I never hike in it I don't have worry about hooking it on tree branches.

For warmth Richard Nisley has a chart somewhere comparing various down and sythetic jackets to 200 weight fleece that I found to be accurate so if you know your relative warmth in a 200 weight fleece you can use that chart to figure out how many ounces of down you need.

***** disclaimer: I DON'T OWN ONE

that said, i agree w/ above that i want more out of my down jacket than the microtherm provides. i've seen them in person and they are very thin. my down sweater by eddie keeps me warm in the 30's. so i'd give that microtherm into the 40's at best, but more likely 50. at those temps i usually just use my rain jacket as warmth, and feel that in the end, you would end up wasting your money on that thin of a jacket. if it were your 2nd or 3rd down jacket (say for specializing on summer trips) then i would recommend it (almost like montbell's lightest down jacket).

having blah blah blah'd. i'd recommend you just wait for eddie to put his jackets back on sale. or keep an eye on the gear swap forum for one in your size.

EDIT: i see eddie downlights available in every size they carry. selective colors.????

EDIT #2: i DO own a downlight sweater. i DO NOT own the microtherm. I don't think i was clear about that above :D

I've owned the microtherm for a little over a year now and am still very pleased with it. I use it in the sierras as my outer layer during the summer months and also for hiking in the socal mountains during the rest of the year. Its light, packs down small and with a baselayer plus lightweight 3/4 zip fleece it keeps me warm into the low to mid 30's. If I were going to be spending much time in cooler temps I'd go with the down sweater.

Never hike in a puffy. Never, ever hike in down. They're for camp only. If you need insulation while hiking, fleece is the way to go. My $0.02.

I can't think of many situations where I'd want a down jacket as light as the Microtherm. I have a Downlight and love it.

del

I agree: down(mostly) for in camp.
So, thin down jacket for milder conditions, thick one for colder weather.

Unlike the previous poster, I do use my super thin down jacket a fair bit.

However, if I could only have one, I'd have a midweight one, as there is less weight savings when replacing a thin fleece jacket with a down jacket than when replacing a medium or thick fleece or synthetic jacket with down.

Thanks everyone,
As nice as the Microtherm appears, and I love the fit, I think I'm going to go with the downlight. like some of you have said, I can save more weight and space by replacing my thicker fleeces than I can with replacing some of my thinner one's.

I do appreciate all the insight, that's why I come here.

Though, I also must buck the notion that you should never hike in down. I have an old marmot down vest that I have used many times in the snow when all the other layers I had just weren't enough. Sure it's not perfect, but I've never had any real problems from using it.

I just wanted to follow up on this an say that I just got a downlight from my wife for my birthday. It is awesome!. just enough to keep me warm without it being hot and stuffy. The fabrics are pretty good at keeping the wind from cutting right through as well. I haven't had it up in the hills or in any wet weather yet, but so far it is one of my favorite pieces of gear.

My avatar shows my Eddie Bauer Downlight Sweater.

Ever since I d@mn near froze my family jewels in AUGUST on the PCT in a high valley near Olancha Peak I have used my down jacket for mountain backpacking.
For around camp evenings and chilly mornings and for ading warmth to yoru sleeping bag this type of jacket is the best.

My EB jacket is great, very high quality…

…HOWEVER, I'd strongly recommend trying to find a light down jacket with DWR treated down like Dri Down or Down Tech. That way the down will stay drier, the loft will stay higher and you will have less weight to carry.

P.S. LL Bean has some Down Tech products. Pattagucci will soon have some and Marmot has some.

If you get the Downlight, make sure to get the hooded version. I didn't but wish I did. If its cold enought to need a puffy jacket, you are going to need something for your head too.

If your philosophy is "only use it at camp", and you don't wear it when hiking, then you can just wrap yourself in your down sleeping bag or quilt at camp to keep you warm. Like a cape or a wrap.
Then you don't need to carry the down jacket. Saves money, bulk, and weight.
You are already carrying your sleeping bag or quilt, so you can use it for that too. And I'll bet it will be warmer than some "ultralight" down jacket, too.

If you decide you need to have an insulated jacket for camp, then you need to get one and carry it, with its cost, and weight, and bulk in your pack. And if you do hike with it on, you'll need a rugged enough jacket to take the strap rubbing wear, and you can expect that any sweating will reduce your down loft.

You gotta hike your own hike.

I've done a fair amount of thinking about this lately. I read so much here about how you folks can hike in 0F with an R1 and a shell as long as you have a good hat and loose socks (I DO learn from you Roger!). So then that makes me think either I am an incredible wimp or you folks are just incredibly crazy.

However…

I've come to the realization that hiking in the Midwest where it is uber flat (oooo!! The hill goes up about 50'! Vista!!!) I just don't generate enough internal heat unless I'm running. So when I am out and the temps dip below freezing, or into the teens, I DO hike in a puffy (I'm partial to synthetic only because I ASSUME it works better as an active layer, in case I do sweat…no evidence here whatsoever).

If I'm running, well yes, that's different. I really do wear teeny layers with a wind block of some kind. But hiking around here just doesn't require that many METs and I need a bit of insulation to not be miserable. Last weekend we were out in the low 20s for a 10 mile day hike (with full pack for exercise): I wore a cap 4 top, nano puff, and Rab Demand pullover; for the bottoms I had a pair of TNF apex tights. I was just about perfect if I didn't stop, and at NO point did I feel overdressed. My legs were far too cold tho…should have had a base layer.

Anyway, just some Midwestern ramblings.

Jennifer, thanks for the laugh. So true!

For so called 3 season hinking in the corner seasons, temps may go as low as 15f/-10c, I usually bring a light grid fleece, a synthetic medium puffy vest and a down sweater, combined with base and wind/rain layers.

The fleece is combined with the vest unzipped for hiking.
When I take a break or reach an exposed summit, I can zip up the vest and if it gets really cold on break or in camp, I'll pull the down sweater on.

I usually sleep in all three on cold nights in a 30 degree bag.

If I were going to be dealing with temps much colder than that, I'd probably add another thin poly/fleece layer and maybe a thicker synth vest.

But, be aware that I usually hike in the damp NorthEast where you can spend a lot of time in freezing rain. If I were hiking in drier climates, I'd probably opt for less synthetic and more down.