Dec 29, 2012 at 4:43 pm #1297476
Here ThereBPL Member
I'm interested in getting an inverted canister stove and the Kovea Spider looks pretty interesting. (Though it's only available on ebay at the moment as far as I can tell.) Unfortunately, I can only find one review and one positive mention:
Anybody else have any experience with this stove?
-DavidDec 29, 2012 at 8:16 pm #1939213
Will be included in forthcoming article on recent stove developments.
CheersDec 29, 2012 at 8:35 pm #1939219
Here ThereBPL Member
Thanks Roger, glad to hear it.
Any idea how it does on CO emissions, especially as compared to something like the Primus Express Spider?Dec 29, 2012 at 9:57 pm #1939230Dec 29, 2012 at 11:04 pm #1939239
Primus Express Spider
CO about 10 ppm after starting spike.
Yet to publish review
CO around 10 ppm as well – a good burner head.
CheersDec 29, 2012 at 11:21 pm #1939240
That's a very strange stove only a mother could love…
I dunno who designed that, but I cannot see the point of it. Corporate politics maybe.
Then you get the GS-340 – another weird beast, but it takes a quite different cartridge so I can't compare.
Anyhow, I am tempted to shrug my shoulders and ignore the strange fuel consumption figures, and believe those for the GS-100.
Comment: they tried to kill off the GS-100 and GST-100 as obsolete, but customer demand seems to have restored them. Amusing.
> Is this higher fuel consumption typical of inverted canister stoves?
No, but the answer is a shade more complex.
You see, you can shut an upright canister stove off immediately by closing the valve, but when you close the valve on a traditional inverted canister arrangement you still have the fuel in the line, and that can be wasted – unless you anticipate and shut down just a shade early.
If you run a series of tests wasting the fuel in the line each time, then you may get slightly greater fuel consumption.
> they only approve isobutane/butane canisters for use with their inverted stove and
> not the more expensive isobutane/propane canisters.
That's the lawyers springing into action. IGNORE! You can use ANY screw-thread canister. Just never let the canister get too hot to touch.
CheersDec 29, 2012 at 11:33 pm #1939243Dec 30, 2012 at 8:54 am #1939290
Stuart RBPL Member
>>So using an isobutane/butane mixture works the same as a more expensive isobutane/propane mixture in freezing conditions when a canister is inverted?
>>Or can you take the isobutane/propane canisters to even lower temps as you can when it is used upright?
The minimum temperature depends on the exact ratio of isobutane/butane and isobutane/propane. The ratios actually chosen by the manufacturers are governed by the pressure limit of the canister, which must not leak or deform @ 50C. Because the canisters are all of similar construction, the low temperature limit tends to be somewhat similar for the different mixtures, with a boiling point of around -20CDec 30, 2012 at 12:51 pm #1939358
> can you take the isobutant/propane canisters to even lower temps as you can when it is used upright?
Stuart has answered this, but here's my 2c.
Propane boils at -43 C while isobutane boils at -12 C. You would think this would make the propane mixture better able to handle the cold, but in fact the limiting factor is really the pressure inside the can and the safety regulations. Propane has a far higher vapour pressure, so they can only put less of it in the can, and the end result (for lower operating temperature) ends up being not very different.
See our article on Exploding Canisters for some light entertainment over this.
CheersDec 30, 2012 at 5:22 pm #1939430Dec 30, 2012 at 9:51 pm #1939494
> So best to use the cheaper silver isobutane/butane mix as they approve anyway.
Use any canister you like – as long as it has some propane or lots of isobutane in it.
> Snowpeaks explanation as to why their inverted canister stove GS-320 uses ~2x more
> fuel than the upright GS-100 even though they are rated the same output.
Sorry, but while I understand their graph, it is a) not relevant and b) misleading.
The graph really just shows canister pressure as a function of use – in COLD weather. The whole point of using an inverted canister stove in cold weather is to get the constant output shown by the blue line. But this says nothing at all about fuel consumption or efficiency.
Fact: I get about the same fuel consumption from an upright canister stove as I do from an inverted canister stove.
I don't know where Snow Peak got their GS-320 figures from, but they are seriously weird. I won't say they are 'wrong' – but I might very well think it.
You need to read lots of our technical articles on stoves. You are a financial Member so you can. There's to much to summarise here.
CheersDec 30, 2012 at 11:16 pm #1939504
@b-g-2-2Locale: Silicon Valley
"You are a financial Member so you can."
What the heck is that? It isn't listed anywhere.
–B.G.–Feb 8, 2013 at 3:50 pm #1952356
I got a Kovea Spider in May or June of last year. I think it's a really nice stove.
A lot of remote canisters seem to be just white gas stoves (i.e. heavy) converted to use gas. The Kovea Spider looks a whole lot more like a canister stove.
And it folds up quite compactly.
It fits in my 780ml Snow Peak pot with room to spare.
She'll have to wait for her supper, but not for long…
…because it's got plenty of power.
It's well designed and well built. My favorite to come out in 2012.
I think there are still some things they could do to lighten it up, but it's really a good stove. I find myself taking it along any time I'm going to be cooking for a group even if I'm not going to use it's liquid feed capabilities.Feb 8, 2013 at 5:02 pm #1952375
Richard NisleyBPL Member
@richard295Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Will the stove head work well inside of a titanium Caldera cone? In inverted mode, with no pot, does the feed line tend to invert the stove like happens with the old style MSR WindPro?Feb 8, 2013 at 5:15 pm #1952379
In inverted mode, with no pot, does the feed line tend to invert the stove like happens with the old style MSR WindPro?
No, the couple rotates smoothly, just like the Windpro II. I suspect the coupler on the Windpro II is actually made by Kovea. It's really smooth.
Will the stove head work well inside of a titanium Caldera cone?
Well, that's a really good question, but I don't know. You won't hurt the titanium cone, but maybe the stove would be a bit starved for oxygen? Just speculating. I haven't tried it. I suspect the pot stands might elevate the pot a bit out of the cone, but again I haven't tried it. One could modify the pot supports for use inside the cone. That might be a really cool option. Not sure how it would work though. One has to be concerned with the pot height above the burner head. I'll take a look this weekend…Feb 11, 2013 at 12:00 am #1953100
Ah, shoot. I didn't get a chance to fire up the Kovea Spider this weekend. I spent time investigating the Soto MicroRegulator in cold weather (I put up a blog post re my findings) and ran out of time. Maybe I can get to it during the week…Feb 24, 2013 at 9:12 pm #1958366
I took my Kovea Spider stove, Evernew 1300ml pot, and a Ti-Tri cone out.
First off, the pot stands of the Kovea Spider are plenty big to support a 1300ml pot.
When I put the Ti-Tri cone in place, I noticed a couple of things:
1. The pot stands push the pot up above the rim of the the Ti-Tri cone about 1 1/16th inches (about 27mm).
2. The hose of the Spider has to be fed under the lower edge of the Ti-Tri, which causes the Ti-Tri to jut up about 1/4 inch (about 6mm).
Since the pot sticks up a bit (but not bad really), you will a) lose some heat transfer since not as much of the pot will be within the cone which causes exhaust gases to flow along the sides of the pot and b) you'll lose some heat to convection since wind can now strike the exposed portion of the pot.
I suspect both of the losses described in "a" and "b" above will be minor. The pot really doesn't stick up that bad. I think the Ti-Tri will probably be more efficient than my usual windscreen, an MSR windscreen, which has better height but doesn't control air flow.
Feb 25, 2013 at 10:48 am #1958507Mar 3, 2013 at 12:14 pm #1960882Mar 7, 2013 at 10:48 am #1962695Mar 8, 2013 at 3:29 pm #1963231
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