Carrying food in bear country?

I assume that your inquiry is about New England and not Alaska or Wyoming. I assume that you are dealing with black bears which can climb trees well.

As a general rule, a factory-sealed food package like a Clif bar is fine during the day. Most of the food that I carry during the day is in some stuff sack in my backpack. It would be extremely rare for wildlife to try to challenge a human for food while on the trail. At night is when the stealthy animals will approach. What is even worse is that bears seem to know the transition period when you've first walked into camp, maybe you are preparing a meal, but the food has not yet been stored high in a tree. I've seen some black bear activity right around meal time. At night when my backpack is empty, I generally leave it flattened out on the ground beside my tent. Then a bear can walk all over it without damaging it much, and it can sniff the pockets to conclude that there isn't much for it to attack.

–B.G.–

Great info, Bob. Thank you. And yes, sorry, New England.

I'm worried about my backpack hipbelt pockets, etc. smelling like a CLIF bar, so even if I open them there'll still be clawing and biting at it. My dog is a good dog, but if she finds a sealed plastic container, she will use her paws and teeth to rip it open even without the smell of food, because she learned from one or two peanut bars that there could be a payoff.

I'm also worried about a little rodent chewing it's way into my bag because of a once-stored CLIF bar.

Any realism to either of these scenarios? Or, I guess, are we all just hoping for bears with better things to do than to bite empty backpacks? :)

If it is not black bears that concern you, then maybe it is varmint activity. I've been known to block off the back of my tarp using my backpack. There, it will be close enough that I will hear the slightest varmint noise during the night. If you are concerned about all animals, then you need to hoist your backpack up in the tree. If you place it near the food, then the food smell will attract small tree-living animals to the food and the backpack. However, the food should smell more powerful than the backpack, so they will go after the food.

If you get overly concerned, then you consider putting out decoys. That is something like an empty brown paper bag tied off with white parachute cord. The animals see it first, so they go after it first, and that makes some noise. That alerts you to get up and throw rocks at them before they ever find the real food.

–B.G.–

Perfect- thank you for the advice.

Regarding rodents…

Red squirrels, fox squirrels and ground squirrels can be brazen when they know food is nearby, but generally speaking, they shy away from humans. Hang a food bag a little before sunset, and a hungry squirrel may crawl down to your bag. I've read of some people poking a hole in a cheap pie tin, and slipping the tin down their line to a knot about 12" above their food bag.

Rats, mice and voles can assault food, or even a pack that smells of food, if it's lying in an accessible location. Usually if something is more than 8' up a tree, it's safe, but determined mice can scurry up just about any tree whose bark they can grab onto. If you keep your pack outside your tent, say, in a vestibule, it's smart to open up all the zippers. Mice get especially active at night, and have been known to chew holes into a pack's pockets simply because snacks were kept within them. They'll go after the salt in your straps, too. Very generally, if you sleep with your pack under your bag, your dominating presence will keep them away.

Chipmunks tend to be too skittish to raise concern. Groundhogs are diurnal omnivores who prefer greens, so you probably needn't worry about them.

I don't worry even the tiniest bit about sealed food infusing odors into my gear or pockets during the day.

Most long distance hikers do not have a second set of cooking clothes to hang in the tree, and even fewer ultralight hikers do. I have never hung cooking clothing, and likely never will.

I have, scores of nights, slept in grizzly country with fish smell on my hands and pants or caribou or elk blood on my clothes and pack. As have tens of thousands of other people. It's not ideal of course, but it's not as risky as some might think and puts things in perspective.

No need to hang your food 20 feet high. 15 feet will be plenty.

It's not a bad idea to consider the odors of insect repellant and tooth paste and lip balm but we go to bed covered with insect repellant and with lip balm on our lips and the odor of food and toothpaste on our breath.

I firmly believe you CAN be too careless OR too careful. I think hanging food properly where required or where bears might be a problem is a very good idea, primarily so bears don't become habituated to stealing food. But speaking for myself, I will be stuffing empty granola bar wrappers in my pockets willy-nilly during the day and not worry at all as long as I store those wrappers with the trash during the night.

The main problem I have with animals is mice in commonly used campsites.

I carry a separate food bag on a shoulder strap that does not go in my pack.
All my food items are in there.

When I am done cooking and eating, I hang that bag up by itself in the appropriate manner.

This segregates all those items into one bag that can be hung when needed, and opened for cooking and eating use, and it doesn't contaminate the main pack.

That's my method.

Mostly do trips in the Sierras and on the coasts of California. The worst I've had to deal with are raccoons and marmots, never any bear problems (am a dedicated canister user just about everywhere because of ease and convenience). Never worried about storing food while hiking. Put all my wrappers in a side mesh pocket of my backpack while on the go then throw them in the canister at night. As noted by other users, my empty bag sits read-to-sniff all night, but with little reward in it.

Max,
Gather you took note from those who see your 'basics' as a bit much.
But your basics do suggest that you want to be extra careful, bearing in mind that it's all about food and drink odors.

With that in mind, and if you are not where a bear can is needed, the best place to carry food in 'bear country,' whatever that means, is outside the pack, in a separate container/sack. In the worst case, you can just leave the sack on the ground and walk away (tip-toe backwards) – the bear is (almost) certain to go for the foodbag. But if it's in your pack, you probably won't have time to dig it out.

So I design top shelves onto all my packs so that the food bag can be bungeed onto the top if I think I'm in 'bear country.' How much of an odor barrier you want on the bag is up to you, and depends on how bearish the bears are. I like the aramid fiber Ursacks because they also offer small critter protection. In the NE US or most of COLO, bears are pretty tame by comparison and avoid people, so if the food bag is hung, and you don't have any food or slurp where you sleep, you will be OK. Were I rich, I would get one of those sparky electric food bags BPL had in the last issue of its paper magazine. Imagine, tazed by a bear bag!

In areas with much more aggressive bears, like around Jasper B.C. where there are grizzes used to people bearing food, you have to be much more careful. But that's another story you did not ask about.

You can put your snacks for the day in a little Opsac if you want to minimize transmission of odor to your pack. And you can wash your hands after eating, and not carry any sweetened drinks to slurp on. Good luck.

I respectfully think that that should virtually never be done.

Bears approach people often. I've had grizzlies (and black bears) run at me many times. Virtually always it was because they didn't know what I was and were curious or they hadn't seen me at all and they were just loping cross-country. They always ended up hurrying or running away. If I threw them my food bag while they were "charging" it would result in a bear trained to keep rushing people and it probably would end with a dead bear.

Carry food when hiking anyway you want. Agree with Coulter about not cutting and running. Put all trash with food in food bag and hang ( or not) depending on your preference. The clothes part is going way too far.

As far as residual food…..it will be the rodents that will give you the problem not bears. Someone mentioned salt, watch trekking pole handles. Critters including deer will nibble on handles for the salt. I alway stick them n the ground close to me.

"If I threw them my food bag while they were "charging" it would result in a bear trained to keep rushing people …"

Buck,
It worked for me with two approaching grizzlies, about 20-30 feet away. They went for the bag instead of me as I slowly tiptoed backwards.
Of course I did not throw the bag to them. Just slowly placed it on the ground.

With black bears you're probably ok with doing this…

With Grizzlies it's a totally different game.

xxxxxxxx I have a odor proof bag I use and I stash food in that and then put that in my front pouch.

All other food stays in bags and OP sacks in my bear bag. I use the and put most of my food in an OP sack.

I'd rather be hella paranoid around grizzlies and just feel like a moron when I never see one.

Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light

“If I threw them my food bag while they were “charging” it would result in a bear trained to keep rushing people …”

Buck,
It worked for me with two approaching grizzlies, about 20-30 feet away. They went for the bag instead of me as I slowly tiptoed backwards.
Of course I did not throw the bag to them. Just slowly placed it on the ground.

I question whether that “worked” or not. You lost all your food, right? And what do you think is going to happen the next time those grizzlies see people? Think they might hustle over to see if it will work again?

People have an overly inflated idea of how dangerous grizzlies are.The “murder rate” for grizzlies on people is lower than that for people on people. In other words a randomly chosen person is more likely to kill someone than a randomly chosen grizzly. There are about 60,000 grizzlies in North America by some estimates, and contrary to our perceptions they kill about 1 person a year. So about 1 out of 60,000 grizzlies kills someone in a given year. About 1 out of 20,000 people kills someone in a given year.

People shouldn’t give up your food unless they’re being attacked, and they are very, very unlikely to be attacked.

"You lost all your food, right?"
Actually not, but that is another story.

"And what do you think is going to happen the next time those grizzlies see people?"
No danger of that – they have passed on by now. At that time, they probably had done and would do the same thing later that they did to me. Scare me away from my pack to get at whatever food I was carrying.

"… overly inflated idea …"
Sorry, I cannot relate to statistical arguments. I've been listening to them all this election year, and most of it has turned out to be bushwah. At the time this incident occurred, there were a number of injuries from bear attacks that year, warnings were posted and some trails were closed. Nowadays, bear cans might well be required in such a situation, and that's all to the good.

"People shouldn't give up your food unless they're being attacked."
If two of them moving toward me 20-30 feet away is not being attacked, when do I know I'm being attacked? After their claws and teeth get hold of me? And then I can let them have the food bag. Like that's my decision to make? Righto.

Absolutely agree with Kevin B's approach when hiking around grizzlies. But the OP was not looking for info about that, so I regret mentioning a grizz incident that sidetracked this thread. My only reason for bringing it up was to illustrate that bears have an incredible sense of smell, and carrying the food separately to minimize odors getting into the pack is a good idea. That way, in the NE US at least, you can probably safely keep the pack dry and have access to it in the tent vestibule, say, without having to hang it up some distance away.

Buck, I would be less confident about the dangers of even black bears being overinflated. These are powerful creatures, capable of dispatching any of us in a flash, and there is no sure way of knowing what is going to get under their skin. They could be ill, or wounded by another animal, starving for food, or trying to protect their young – any number of things. It is not a science. We have to be very careful.

I strongly second Harrison's comment:

"They'll go after the salt in your straps, too"

Some night creature pretty well ruined my backpack one night. Holes everywhere, zippers chewed through, etc. It was for the salt.

I'm a heavy sweater so most of my gear has white salty streaks on it after hiking. So I keep everything in the tent with me.