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Android + Backcountry Navigator vs Garmin GPS devices.


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Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) Android + Backcountry Navigator vs Garmin GPS devices.

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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 31 total)
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  • #1297354
    Kevin Burton
    BPL Member

    @burtonator

    Locale: norcal

    I want to carry an Android device for photos, videos, movies, pictures, wikipedia, Internet and tons of other features.

    It doesn't make a ton of sense to have a full Garmin GPS device with identical technology.

    There *IS* Backcountry Navigator:

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crittermap.backcountrynavigator.license&hl=en

    which is an app for using the phone's GPS to determine location and use topo maps.

    I suspect that the Garmin is probably better at GPS nav since it's been around FOREVER but *how* much better is the main question.

    Has anyone had any experience with this?

    #1938171
    James Reilly
    Spectator

    @zippymorocco

    Locale: Montana

    I use Android with Trimble Outdoor as my Gps. I always have a paper map that gets me through most things but Trimble helps me when I off trail or need to locate myself quickly. The battery life of the phone keeps me from using it for very long at a time. I usually carry and extra battery in case but really I use GPS as my backup navigation and battery life isn't a concern for a night or two out.

    I plan to hike the CDT in a couple years and will most likely bring a dedicated mapping GPS on that trip. That is unless Android and the handset manufacturers improve battery capacity greatly before then or I can figure out a good plan to recharge along the way.

    As far as the GPS functions of Android (2.3 and higher) and the apps go. I wouldn't hesitate to use it as my primary navigation tool if the power issue was sorted out. Of course not all handsets are created equal. Some of the Samsung line has had issues with GPS locking and some just work better than other.

    I like the idea of one device for everything and hope it gets there soon.

    #1938177
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    Most dedicated mapping GPS receivers do better than a smart phone with GPS. I won't say that it is consistently better, but often it is. Most have a slightly better GPS antenna than a smart phone, partly because dedicated GPS receivers only need to do one thing, receive signals from space. Smart phones, by contrast, do that plus transmit and receive terrestrial signals, plus sometimes WI-FI and Bluetooth.

    If you are operating in wide open country, you will get excellent GPS reception on either rig, so it doesn't matter. As you start to move into challenging terrain, the advantage of the dedicated GPS receiver may show. This is especially true in a difficult multipath interference situation, such as with lots of wet tree leaves overhead and some large rock surfaces nearby. However, even if your system starts having some difficulties, this doesn't mean that you are lost forever. Typically it means that your location seems to be jumping around erratically by a little extra.

    OTOH, some smart phones use cell phone augmentation to GPS. If the GPS signals are marginal, sometimes the cell phone augmentation can help locate you, or more quickly. However, if you are way out in the boonies, you probably don't have any cell phone service, so you don't want to be counting on that augmentation.

    Some people are getting so dependent on their smart phones to do everything that I wonder if they aren't missing the main purpose of wilderness travel. I do carry a tiny GPS receiver, but sometimes I don't use it for days and days.

    –B.G.–

    #1938203
    Nelson Sherry
    Member

    @nsherry61

    Locale: Mid-Willamette Valley

    My Garmin sits in a drawer at home. I have access to more different maps on my Andriod phone. Backcountry Navigator manages noisy signal better than my Garmin. My phone is way multi-use. My phone fits in my pocket better. My phone has a bigger display. And, since I don't consider my GPS to be mission critical, I don't feel I need the bomb-proofness of my Garmin.

    #1938232
    Gregory Stein
    BPL Member

    @tauneutrino

    Locale: Upper Galilee

    Where do you charge your smartphone when you're away from any electricity?
    In most smartphones the battery depletes quickly. Not to mention all the fancy "functions" of it: photo, video, gps, internet…

    I prefer NOT to take GPS at all. And I bring my 60 gram Nokia 1280 which is a monochrome display phone with "emergency" flashlight and it takes from week to 10 days to discharge its battery.

    Why smartphone + 5x charged extra batteries OR solar charger which you never know either will be helpful or not?

    IMHO

    #1938233
    Gregory Stein
    BPL Member

    @tauneutrino

    Locale: Upper Galilee

    Where do you charge your smartphone when you're away from any electricity?
    In most smartphones the battery depletes quickly. Not to mention all the fancy "functions" of it: photo, video, gps, internet…

    I prefer NOT to take GPS at all. And I bring my 60 gram Nokia 1280 which is a monochrome display phone with "emergency" flashlight and it takes from week to 10 days to discharge its battery.

    Why smartphone + 5x charged extra batteries OR solar charger which you never know either will be helpful or not?

    IMHO

    #1938274
    Brian Lewis
    Member

    @brianle

    Locale: Pacific NW

    James Reilly's comments exactly match my own feelings. Assuming you have a half-way decent smartphone and spend some time beforehand to learn it's "little ways", I too would rather save the weight and bulk and just sort of "fiddle factor" of carrying yet another device. A smartphone does well enough, with battery power being the big caveat.

    And as James plans to, I did bring a standalone GPS on the CDT last year and would do so again, with battery power a/the major reason. Easy and comforting to carry a pair or two of lightweight lithium AA batteries as spare in order to use the GPS whenever I'm inclined to in that sort of setting. And the particular GPS unit I brought is quite weather proof, unlike my phone. So that I always had it a bit more ready to hand in any conditions (though always off except for relatively short bouts of use).

    #1938284
    Ben W.
    BPL Member

    @benjita

    Locale: Arlington, VA

    Battery life is definetly an issue with a smartphone. At best, I've never been able to get a few hours worth of life out of the phone. I also don't have a way of recharging. My GPS has replaceable batteries. I have heard though that you can turn off the radios in some phones while only running the GPS.

    #1938305
    J-L
    BPL Member

    @johnnyh88

    I use my iPhone as my GPS with the Gaia app and it works fine. I turn off my wifi, 3G, and other stuff and keep it in airplane mode. When I want to check my position, I switch it out of airplane mode, wait a few seconds, verify with my map, and then put it back into airplane mode. I usually do this a few times a day. Even in a deep slot canyon with absolutely no cell reception, my phone matched my Garmin (which I have since stopped taking most of the time).

    Used in this manner, I once only used up 28% of my battery power on a 4 day trip through forests and canyons. I turned it off as soon as I got to camp and kept its battery warm.

    So yes, a smart phone can work fine depending on your usage of it. If you want to track yourself and leave it on the whole time, a dedicated GPS would be better.

    #1938310
    Jason G
    BPL Member

    @jasong

    Locale: iceberg lake

    There are miles of thread discussing this.. search!

    ^ I do exactly what john does and it works great!

    #1938314
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    I have a garmin extrex 30 that I received as a gift last summer. It's not something I would have bought on my own, but I like it and will use it. The real issue here is battery life. If I have my smart phone, I will end up using it for a lot of other things. On short trips or on trail trips, it doesn't matter as much. I am really getting into off trail travel so it should help me out a bit. Also, if you don't own a smartphone, a gps is generally cheaper than buying a new phone (without a contract).

    #1938317
    Cayenne Redmonk
    BPL Member

    @redmonk

    Locale: Greater California Ecosystem

    If i need a GPS, i would avoid bringing one with a breakable screen. Most smart phones have a large breakable display.

    Also, water resistance. My phone has two exposed ports, one covered but not water tight port, and two speakers plus a microphone that look likely to leak.

    #1938318
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    A guy working at REI told me that my GPS is waterproof down to a few feet. That is good to know. My smart phone stays in a waterproof bag.

    #1938329
    Eric N.
    Member

    @lugsoul

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    I've used Garmin GPSs for years, and currently have a 62s. But I've always wanted a bigger screen, and I've never thought the Garmin maps were that great. So, a year ago I got a Droid Razr Maxx and have used several different navigation apps on it, including Backcountry Navigator, Orux, Gaia, Locus Pro, and Viewranger. Overall, I like Viewranger best, because their maps are the most readable: nice terrain shading with trails in red. Locus Pro is also very good, and is probably the most sophisticated navigation app out there. It takes a while to master. The Droid's screen is quite large, which was nice. Nonetheless, I've ended up going back to the Garmin, because the Droid's screen is almost useless in sunlight, while the Garmin is fine in sunlight. On a recent week-long backpack, I carried both, because I still used the Droid for reading books on the Kindle app, and also used an Audubon wildflower app. Plus, I was surprised to find that, even in the relatively remote Eagle Cap Wilderness in NE Oregon, I was able to send and receive texts when I was on high passes. I did carry a small auxiliary power supply to juice it up once.

    #1938331
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Great warning sign I found in Joshua Tree last week. The National Park Service says neither may work :)

    Warning Sign

    #1938333
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    My paper topo map has a bigger screen than your Garmin.

    –B.G.–

    #1938337
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    "My paper topo map has a bigger screen than your Garmin."

    That's why you should bring a paper map as well. You can see everything, get a good idea of scale, and plan your routes. Trying to scout around on a tiny screen sucks.

    #1938338
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    Why wouldn't GPS work in Joshua Tree? Are they just trying to stop people from relying on it?

    #1938346
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    "Why wouldn't GPS work in Joshua Tree? Are they just trying to stop people from relying on it?"

    Don't know, but I thought it was a cool sign.

    I have played around with a smart phone and GPS. The problem is battery life and they can too easily break or malfunction.

    In my youth I could navigate in jungles in strange places with only a map and compass. Over the years I rarely needed a compass, just a topo map would do. A couple years ago I was in some very difficult canyon country and found my compass skills had deteriorated, not to mention my UL baseplate compass was less than desirable. So I dug out my old Cammenga lensatic compass when I got back home. Now my skill is back to where it needs to be.

    Based on my experience I am not an advocate of this new technology. And why would a light hiker want multiple tools (compass to back up the GPS). If one is not expert with map and compass, then they can be at serious risk. I'll take my 5 oz compass over a GPS or Spot any day. Just my opinion.

    #1938352
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    "Why wouldn't GPS work in Joshua Tree?"

    That is difficult to say.

    It might be that the park officials just don't want you to be dependent on something that could possibly fail due to high temperatures. Maybe they refer to the map database inside some GPS receivers. JTree doesn't have a lot of good roads and streets.

    From spending years in the GPS business, I can tell you that there are a number of places where GPS is _intentionally_ unreliable. Those tend to be near military bases (e.g. 29 Palms) where GPS jamming tests are run. Warnings about jamming tests are publicized periodically, but few people pay attention. If jamming tests are underway, your civilian GPS receiver will go completely haywire. Military receivers will keep working since it is mostly the civilian frequency that the test fools with.

    –B.G.–

    #1938371
    Cayenne Redmonk
    BPL Member

    @redmonk

    Locale: Greater California Ecosystem

    Roads that have changed route, no longer exist, or were never completed can exist in map sources and cause problems for drivers.

    #1938374
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    GPS doesn't work so good in steep canyon areas

    or under forests (not problem at Joshua)

    GPS can lead you over the coast range in winter and get you stuck in the snow – not Joshua Tree related

    #1938378
    greg c
    Member

    @spindrifter

    It appears that smartphones vary in their receptivity of satellite signals. I was relying on my Motorola smartphone for a bit but then purchased an etrex 20 in response to too many reception failures. I had GPS signals at Lassen national park, while climbing Mt Shasta, but absolutely no signal on Mt. Baker, Mt. Adams, or Sahale Glacier. It just came to a point that I couldn't be confident of satellite reception in any given place. The Etrex has its flaws, but satellite reception isn't one of them. It has received signals everywhere I have travelled to date.

    #1938382
    Eric N.
    Member

    @lugsoul

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    I'd never go out without a paper map, plus a compass. For me, the main appeal of a GPS is not navigation as much as having an odometer/altimeter, and being able to download the track when I get home and match it up with photos on a map.

    #1938385
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    A map will tell you the altitude. When you get home use a map measurer (or prior to hike) to determine distance. Make a note on your map if you need to know where you took a picture.

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