Dec 12, 2012 at 9:55 pm #1297022
@mountainwalkerLocale: SF Bay Area & New England
What's the best warmest current or soon-to-be-released synthetic belay jacket? It would be helpful if you could offer any comparison with the current Patagonia DAS 2011-2012 which has Primaloft 1 insulation – that's my only frame of reference.Dec 12, 2012 at 10:13 pm #1935157
Good recent discussion with comparisons to the DASDec 12, 2012 at 10:39 pm #1935161
you know how the MEC reflex was the deal of last year for poofays … well if i didnt already have a synth one id be all over this one …. 115 smackaroos for something with basically as much PL1 the DAS …
1/3 the cost, same insulation, any reason warranty, 1% back to the planet ;)
if you do buy a DAS make sure you get this years, they are down rating the insulation for next year …
MEC Northern Lite Ultra Jacket (Men's)
Product Number: 5025-741
Made in Thailand
Weight: 615g (Small)
The lightness and compressibility of the Northern Lite Ultra keeps its overall volume low, so you can easily bring it for alpine routes and ski tours. The mapped insulation effectively places warmth where you need it, but keeps it streamlined where you don't. A DWR finish on the nylon is water resistant to shed light rain or snow and keep dirt and grime from sticking. Articulated elbows allow you keep moving without feeling impeded.
Shell is a lightweight 20-denier polyester with a DWR finish.
Lining is durable mini ripstop polyester.
Mapped PrimaLoft® One insulation distributes fill where it’s needed most: 60g in the hood and cuffs, 135g in the front torso and 200g in the shoulders, arms, chest, and back.
Adjustable, helmet-compatible hood with reinforced brim to keep rain out of your eyes.
Articulated elbows increase range of motion and mobility.
2 high pockets with fleece lining, an external chest pocket, and an internal chest pocket with headphone port for your music player.
Elasticized cuffs for a snug fit that keeps moisture out.
Hip length cut offers good coverage.
Regular fitDec 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm #1935163
I'm seeing that unlike REI, MEC makes some awesome gear for decent prices. Does anybody have experience ordering from them and getting shipped to USA without additional taxes..Dec 13, 2012 at 8:22 am #1935214
That MEC jacket looks mighty sweet. If you want the most massive (insulation-wise) Synthetic Jacket, the Mountain Hardwear B'layman jacket is on STP right now and has 200g of "thermic micro" insulation:
$210 and there are some 35% off coupons floating around…
Personally, I like the idea of using layers of synthetics, as described here:Dec 13, 2012 at 8:34 am #1935217
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
The only problem is the nylon shell material has very little insulation value compared to synthetic or down insulation
If a jacket is 2 square yards, that's 4 square yards total – 2.8 oz total for 0.7 oz/yd2 material, or more if you have heavier shell material, plus any extra for zippers or whatever
if you're doing alpine where you have to have an insulated jacket when you're exercising, and an additional belay jacket, then fine. If you really want to minimize over-all weight in non-extreme conditions where you don't need insulation layer when exercising, you want to have just one insulated layer.Dec 13, 2012 at 11:45 am #1935260
the problem with thermic micro is that no one it seems nows the insulative value of it …. we all know that PL1 is the "best" synth on the market and its claimed clo values …
most of these proprietary insulations, we have no idea … and the manufacturers like it this way to make comparisons very hardDec 13, 2012 at 11:57 am #1935263
@mikefaedundeeLocale: Under a bush in Scotland
The Wild Things Belay Jacket is probably the warmest. Over 200g P1 all over.Dec 13, 2012 at 1:23 pm #1935275
I have the older model. when compared against a das parka i thought the wt belay jacket was warmer. (the old model at least) was sized so that if you wore a large in their other jackets it would fit over everything without too much of an issue. if you aren't planning on wearing it as your last layer, you might want to down-size. i could wear a base layer, polar stretch hoodie/atom lt, windshirt and/or hardshell under the belay jacket with room to spare. with a base layer, hoodie, and windshirt i was comfortable at rest in the -10f+/- range (with proper hat, gloves, boots and pants) i think it could go colder, just never had the opportunity. i like the epic shell in case you should encounter running water or find yourself propped-up against snow.Dec 13, 2012 at 1:58 pm #1935281
@lindahlbLocale: Colorado Rockies
Similar to the DAS Parka (Primaloft One). 110g (4oz) in the arms/hood, 140g (5oz) in the torso when I asked.Dec 13, 2012 at 3:20 pm #1935295
The Cloudveil Enclosure and Sherpa Raajen were both 200 g/sm primaloft one jackets which should be warmer then the das but are now discontinued/hard to find. After finding our das parkas lacking a few times I looked into other synthetic options but didn't find a great one and am now evaluating down coats (see my thread on the peak xv).Dec 13, 2012 at 6:04 pm #1935331Dec 13, 2012 at 7:19 pm #1935338
I think a lot of people share your experience and observations which is probably why this breed of coat is dyeing out. Infact, next years DAS will use thinner insulation:
That being said, i've found that the place where a big dumb synthetic poofy stands out above all others is for the marginal conditions found maritime climates like the cascades in winter where the temperature varies a few degrees right around freezing and it might very from raining to snow to fog in the course of a day with 90+% humidity.
Even diligent venting and expensive breathable membranes won't keep your clothing moisture free for long in these conditions.
Some people also object to down for ethical reasons though several manufactures are now taking steps to ensure that their supply chain is free of live plucking and force feeding.
A coat out of left field that the op might consider if his main concern is wetness is the Brooks Range Mojave wich uses a waterproof treated 800+ fp down:Dec 13, 2012 at 7:55 pm #1935348
people use it when there is non stop rain or a good possibility of saturation of the down … the brits and PNWers are quite fond of em if that tells you anything
if youve camped in non stop pouring and drizzling rain with no sun for over a week at close to 100% humidity with temps near freezing … youll understand those conditions … the ones where no matter how careful you are anything you wear gets soaked and wet
they are also used by alpinist in coastal conditions where you cant spend the time "babying" your jacket in dripping waterfall ice or wet sticky snow or rain .. youre too busy climbing or trying to stay alive ….
it all depends on the conditions and what you do …
heres a snapshot of what the next week in coastal BC squamish looks like … ask yourself what gear would you bring for such conditions …
the other point is to realize that "800+ fill down" isnt really 800 fill at high humidity levels … its more like 600-700 … theres been plenty of days when my MB exl, or my other high powered down jackets were barely warmer than my equivalent synth pieces …
the new DWR nanotech down may get around this hopefully … but as it stands with regular down, you arent getting the full fill power out here when its wet even if you keep your down dry …Dec 13, 2012 at 8:51 pm #1935355Dec 13, 2012 at 9:15 pm #1935359
@cascadebackpackerLocale: Pacific NW
Wild Things Belay Jacket gets my vote.
I used it to climb Mt. Rainier and that baby kept we warm. Plus, its Made in the USA with very high quality!Dec 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm #1935364
well rick it depends what you are going … if you are out for a day hike and climb at freezing … 60g/m will be fine if you mostly keep moving and dont stop for too long
as to approaches in 60g/m … i own an atom LT and its way too hot for me to wear until it gets below -10c or lower for any strenuous hikes
it also GREATLY depends depends on the person … i used to be able to belay in winter rock climbing with just a light puffy, but as i get older and have loss 20 lbs of fat from daily climbing … if i dont wear s thick synth puffy i start getting cold very fast these days
the bottom line is to find what works for you …
what synth does is give you a greater margin of error in continuously damp conditions … or conditions where a damp belay jacket can be deadly … you can also dry out damp synth with enough body heat or a hawt nalgene
where synth really shines is the conditions i posted above … non stop freezing rain and wet snow … where temps oscillate around the freezing point … with no sun …
to further complicate matters .. when i bring a synth puffy these days ill almost always bring a down "booster" layer for long stops … this goes under the synth which protects it from moisture and its possible to dry out even lightly damp down this way with enough body heat …Dec 14, 2012 at 6:37 am #1935394
@fluffinreach-comLocale: no. california
how's come we are not look;n at the lofted wool from Ibex ?
they have a very nice shelled hooded thingie, and if "somebody else" bought one, well then , the rest of us would know if it's any good.
we've all got syn-shelled pullover's, and they are OK (and VERY convenient), but hardly good at any time for covering ground. you can't even walk across town wearing one. they're just too sweaty. works fantastic for setting up camp though.
separate, but related a little bit, subject :
by the merino wool way. the Only short-sleeve-Zip-T made now, is from the nice people at Minus-33.
v.Dec 14, 2012 at 5:43 pm #1935518
@tjaardLocale: Minnesota, USA
I want a synthetic belay jacket because even when it's 0f/-18C I still sweat while climbing and hiking, leaving my action suit damp, add to that water dripping of the ice and ice climbing belays can see me start out belaying with a lot of moisture in my clothes. I get cold easy, so at those temps, moving almost nothing while belaying I want a very warm parka.Dec 14, 2012 at 6:00 pm #1935522Dec 20, 2012 at 7:21 am #1936863
How about the Rab Photon Belay jacket?Dec 20, 2012 at 9:22 am #1936910
Eddie Bauer has size L Igniter on sale for $79, can't get any better value than this IMO. I have their Serrano 60gms Primaloft jacket and have have worn it comfortably in 25-28F cold with a patagonia torrnt shell rain jacket in the camp. I also have their Igniter pants which I have worn at home in 40F cold against the skin and can feel the warmth within a minute after putting them on.Dec 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm #1937007Dec 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm #1937010
It's available online too, free shipping and hurry up before its gone. Too bad there is no size M or SDec 20, 2012 at 9:06 pm #1937103
@redpointLocale: British Columbia
I've used both the Patagonia DAS and Arc'teryx Dually. Warmth seems comparable. DAS has a better hood, but dually is unbelievably resistant to water. Both nice pieces and used frequently.
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