Cuben Tarps: HMG vs ZPACKS

[wim b]

I have a MLD Cricket tent in cuben and a HMG Duomid. Also owned a MLD Solomid xl

Have slept about 70 nights Under the Cricket and 10 with wife in the Duomid.

The MLD is still going strong and there are no issues with tie outs or fabric, the fabric feels softer than when it was new.

The HMG feels more solid right out of the bag and compared to MLD feels overbuil,t which depending where you stand is either good or bad because there is a weight penalty. I must mention there was more attention to detail on the MLD zipper in their mid I owned.

MLD has the worst website and responses to my questions where short and to the point, very economic with words.

HMG feels more corporate in its approach and is strong in branding.

 

My next shelter will come from MLD

 

[Hoosier T]

HMG is very obviously more corporate and due to a recent huge investment into their company, has the means to make more professional looking gear than smaller cottage folks. I don’t even think they can be compared anymore. That’s like comparing an Osprey to an Arc Blast. The Osprey will look like it was made by robots in comparison but it will be heavier and likely more expensive which seams counter to the intention of UL backpackers. The other thing I think people are overlooking is that they can now capitalize on HMG’s step away from being “cottage”. Their products are now available through websites like Backcountry, so…why aren’t people looking at the fact that you can now take advantage of that and buy HMG products for 20% off when those sales are run, what, four time a year? That means that an 8×10 tarp can be had for $280 shipped whereas a BearPaw 8.5×10 is $275, so only $5 more for an HMG if you want the more bomber build quality. I might be off here but at least wanted to offer my insight.

[Cory N]

HMG isn’t offered with a 20% discount. Read the fine print. Similar to Western Mountaineering and the like.

[Hoosier T]

Actually it does work with the sale. I just bought a pack during the last sale so I know it does. This was from backcountry.

[Hoosier T]

@hippieredneck, welcome to the site, btw. I see that was your first post.

[James L]

Hoosier T said-

“HMG is very obviously more corporate and due to a recent huge investment into their company, has the means to make more professional looking gear than smaller cottage folks. I don’t even think they can be compared anymore. ”

 

That is total bunk, IMO…

 

There is absolutely NOTHING special about the appearance of HMG stuff compared to MLD ,Zpacks ,Gossamer gear, ULA or any other top end cottage maker.

 

The only thing HMG is superior at is push marketing the heck out of overpriced, overweight cuben gear of very mediocre design.

 

QUALITY in ultralight gear comes from  well thought out design, quality materials using simple sewing equipment and good craftsmen. Its not rocket science . Almost every one of the top makers do it superbly.

HMG is NOT making pack designs that are even remotely as complex to build as some of the latest Osprey stuff.

<span style=”line-height: 1.8;”>Slick logos, huge advertising/ distribution budgets and “brand ambassadors” have not a darm thing to do with the quality of the actual product you recieve . </span>

Do you REALLY think HMG has any better craftsmen than Ron Bell ? Or creates better designs than Zpacks?

Heck, using non Cuben fiber materials ULA. and Gossamer Gear makes better designed packs that are just as light .. And at 2/3 the cost.

Nothing special at ALL about HMG except in the minds of folk blinded by their marketing.

<span style=”line-height: 1.8;”>If people buy their gear and are satified with the fit and perfomance- great. But they should not delude themselves into thinking its actually better made than any Cuben products from the best Cottage makers, because its not.</span>

 

[Jim C]

One very real benefit of HMG is that you can get your stuff in days versus weeks or months. Sure, if you plan ahead, that may not matter much to you, but to a lot of folks, it’s important. All other things being equal, not one person would prefer to wait longer versus shorter.

[James L]

Yes , some people are poor planners or are impatient and they need gear fast.

But then again, some of us dont mind waiting a bit if we are getting better gear for less money.

Haste makes waste.

There is also a reason why makers like Zpacks and EE etc are backlogged in advance. Demand.

One thing I will give HMG credit for is exposing the average backpacking consumer to cuben fiber UL goods through larger retail outlets.

This is a good thing, but unless HMG works on evolving designs and using a wider range of materials, in the future they will become the GOLITE of cuben fiber. At the price points they are selling their gear at, they should be on the cutting edge of design and they simply are not.

[Jim C]

There are at least two reasons Zpacks et al are backlogged: demand and supply. HMG deserves more credit than you give it: they evidently has an efficient operation that allows them to supply the goods that people demand. It’s not just marketing; they are doing things right that other equipment makers could learn from.

Also, you needn’t be a poor planner to appreciate faster delivery. You might prefer a Zpacks shelter six weeks from now over an HMG shelter this week, but you’d still prefer a Zpacks shelter this week over the same shelter in six weeks.

If you can get your shelter or pack quickly, it gives you an opportunity to check it out long before your trip, and send it back if you determine it’s not right for you. This lessens the risk to the consumer, and provides incentive to the producer to address quality and applicability concerns.

With a long lead time, you agonize over the decision, hunt for reviews on BPL and the web, and hope that the product will arrive in time for the intended trip, and that it will suit your unique needs. Or, to avoid being a “poor planner,” you order something long before you actually need it, which is itself waste.

So let’s not dismiss people who make other purchasing decisions as suckers for marketing. There are legitimate advantages to a model like HMG. If anything, we should hope other manufactures can adopt some of these practices, or they may lose out to those that have a better production pipeline.

[James L]

Jim

I am not dismissing anyone. And my first answer on this thread said nothing about HMG customers other than the fact they should not let HMGs marketing hype delude them into thinking they have  superior cuben  UL gear compared to what else is available -because they do not.

I happilly give HMG no more credit than they deserve. Their packs and shelters  are mostly copies of 10+++ year old designs. , Their packs are basically $300+ Cuben fiber versions of Ray Jardine UL packs with a hip belt and a few stays. And poorly designed pockets.:)

My point is people like you give HMG WAY more  credit than they truly deserve. They are flooding their distribution pipeline with mediocre product  to make money. Not to produce superior gear. If people want to buy it because they can get it fast or return it, etc good for them. Still does not make it better in terms of actual quality  than most any other cottage made alternative out there.

If it were not for the Cuben material they use, there really would not be any compelling reason for anyone with any knowlege to even consider buying HMG products. Which gets back to their mediocre designs:)

 

[Matthew / BPL]

The wait time at ZPacks and MLD probably has to do with their willingness to customize. I don’t think HMG does that. Or maybe they do?

[JCH]

Matthew – I don’t think ZPacks accepts custom orders any longer.

It think the wait for ZPacks comes down almost entirely to supply constraints…it isn’t easy to crank out huge mounds of gear. And growing a company is not easy…it takes a huge monetary investment on top of business acumen and accepting the risk requires a HUGE set of attachments.  Not to mention that the owner has to WANT to grow the business larger.

[Matthew / BPL]

@JCH – I was just looking at ZPacks flat tarps and you can order them with guyout points wherever you want. I know that’s not full custom but I don’t think HMG does that. My point is that would make it much easier for HMG to have stacks of tarps already built sitting on a shelf ready to ship.

[JCH]

Did not realize the tarps were still configurable…just assumed the elimination of the pack customizations extended to other products as well…my fault.

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