Cold Feet Sleepers – Solution Debate

I posted a similar question here previously and mentioned my reluctance to go the down bootie route. I finally had one too many painful toes experiences and took the plunge…goose feet with 25% overfill, with the overshoes for nighttime potty breaks. My 4-day trip last weekend found us in temps that dipped to the mid-20s…nothing horrific but most certainly low enough for me to get some painfully cold toes.

I had no trouble. I had wonderfully comfortable feet! For a while on the last morning I thought, well, it's not really that cold out…that must be why my feet are so warm. But when I changed into my trail runners and smartwool socks…within minutes my toes were freezing and painful.

So…despite the horrific fashion statement they make around camp in the am, they are my dream come true!!

thanks Ben at Goose Feet!!

> resolve your cold sleeping feet
For me, a warm hat.

Cheers

Jennifer

What deg. rating bag did you use on your last trip?

KJ

Roger

Are you saying on your head, or wrapped around your feet? I already sleep in my ZPacks beanie.

KJ

20 deg EE quilt with 30% overstuff. It was my first below freezing attempt in a quilt and I was just fine. My pad could have been warmer tho…

I used to use a 15 deg bag when the temps dropped but still my feet would freeze. Love love love the down socks. And I mean that with all my heart…..

Roger your internal furnace must be awfully haywire if wearing a hat keeps your feet warm ;)

For me it was VBLs in the form of plastic bags…the kind you put bulk food in at the grocery store. Not trendy (perfect!) but cost nothing, and weighs 1/4 ounce (2 bags and 2 rubber bands to keep them on).

I too have recently went with Ben's down socks and then with the overbooties, and so far I am glad that I have! I have used them 4 nights now and they have been great each night! I got the size large (in both socks & overbooties) and had an extra 25% overfill in the socks. My socks are also M50 rather than the stock. The total weight on my large down socks with overfill is 2.1 oz, and another 2.2 oz for the overbooties with Dyneema X soles.

I recently did a write up on my blog with a video. If you would like to check them out, here is the link:

http://sticksblog.com/2012/11/23/goosefeet-gear-down-socks-over-booties/

Would you mind posting your entire sleep setup? Although there is a very good chance that there is nothing wrong with your setup and your feet are simply just cold I think that it might be something worth looking at. An example would be if you were using a 3/4 length pad. A full length pad may be a viable solution.
But for a more direct answer to your question, I don't think that you could go wrong with any of your footwear solutions. I would be hesitant to get a sleeping bag with a warmer foot box because it may cause your feet to sweat in warmer weather.

I already sleep in my ZPacks beanie.

Is this with a quilt or with a bag? For me a light fleece beanie wouldn't be enough hat at 30F let alone 20F when using a quilt. A warmer hat will help your feet.

I've got possum down socks and have been very impressed with them. I also have the Goosefeet socks which I have used once at 28F and they worked well. I have also used the bread bags inside possum down socks technique before in a cold mountain hut. I just couldn't get my feet warm but once I used the bags – toasty feet in a few minutes.

> Roger your internal furnace must be awfully haywire if wearing a hat keeps your feet warm
Nope. Very well-known and basic human physiology. Certainly not an original Roger saying either.

Your head is the most critical part of your body, and your entire metabolism will focus on keeping it warm. If this means shunting all the blood to your head, so be it. But doing so means cold feet. Worse, your head may still feel warm while your feet are freezing. A beanie may not be enough.

If you have adequate flow of warm blood down your legs, your feet will be warm enough. But if you are wearing shorts in cold weather, don't complain that your feet are cold. If you are wearing tight shoes which restrict the flow of blood, your feet will be cold. The same applies to those very stupid compression tights of course.

Cheers

Because that's what we do here at BPL…

Yes, wearing a hat will, generally, reduce overall heat loss and to a degree lessen the vasoconstriction of the extremities. But distal thermoregulation is much more complicated than that, not even considering the effect of circadian rhythms as well (which, for many of us, can be thrown off in the wilderness when we go to bed at 7:30 in the winter). And for many folks, this system doesn't work very well at all, ever. That's why there are so many people with cold hands or feet even in the house, wearing tons of clothes.

When you sleep your heart slows (bradycardia), which is one reason why, even at home, you get chilly when you are sleeping. In colder temperatures, this bradycardia increases even more, and even without vasodilation/vasoconstriction at play, the blood flow to your extremities is reduced.

The face also plays a huge role, since exposure of the trigeminal nerve (one of the main nerves of the face) to cold activates a sympathetic pathway that induces vasoconstriction, as well as a parasympathetic pathway that induces bradycardia. And since you can't bury your face in your nice down sleeping bag without causing lots of other problems, sleeping outdoors with your face exposed can also cause a cooling of the hands and feet.

So yes, we should all be wearing hats and balaclavas and goggles to sleep when it's cold out…but for many people its not nearly enough to maintain adequate thermoregulation of the feet.

And no, please don't actually sleep in compression tights. They're great for walking…but not for sedentary stuff.

A hat and down booties are great. A hot water bottle is an even better addition to those. Boiling water, 16 oz wide mouth nalgene; fill it, stick it in a sock, chuck it in the bottom of your bag. When we're camping below freezing my wife, who has cold feet (cold everything, really) always gets a hot water bottle. Easier to stay warm when you're already warm.

they rock at keeping you warm when you're cold.

I often have this also: completely warm in the bag, but cold feet, even after changing into dry sox.
What works fast are thinsulate booties, about 2.9 oz. for the pair.
They go right over the sox, and fit into the camp booties when leaving the tent.
They are a surplus item, but the divers also use them:
http://deepbluedive.outletsalesonline.com/beaver-thinsulate-booties/
Around $20 or less.
Sportsman's Guide used to carry them, but don't see them there now.
A large on line military surplus supplier should have them.
If using a shortie pad, it can also help to put something down under the foot of the bag or quilt, as the ground will quickly suck away heat through the bag compressed by the weight of the feet and lower legs. Have heard that climbers use their packs.

Down is very light and efficient, but I'm not for using it where it will get wet; as in havng to get up and go outside the tent for a bit in the rain.

Now don't forget to wear your hat, Roger!

"I have also used the bread bags inside possum down socks technique before in a cold mountain hut. I just couldn't get my feet warm but once I used the bags – toasty feet in a few minutes".

That's been my experience every single time I have used any sort of VBL. I feel warmth at the part of my body the VBL covers almost immediately. A cold part is comfortably warm in 5 minutes or so. Resistance to simplicity is one of those human oddities in this technological age though.

before I go to bed, I take off my socks and let my feet dry completely, then
I put on both an inner pair of fleece socks, not wool, fleece and then I put
on down booties. The inner fleece greatly boosts the warmth of the down booties.
Even at home I have ice feet so my wife jumps if she touches me and this works for me.

Huge fan of down booties! So nice to hang out at camp when it is dark and cold with cozy feet. In winter we are usually at camp a lot longer justifying the weight to me.

UL down booties with over boots – dual use of insulation !

I use the 3oz Flash Down Booties by WM for cold temps. I’ve been fine wearing them in my 16oz 20F zpack quilt down to 20F. I do have a coolmax liner sock on.
In the morning, I loosen the straps of my sandals so I can accommodate the puffiness of down booties. I can hike with that setup for about 10 minutes before my feet are sweating up a storm.

And I bike with my down-booties/sandals-combo a lot down to 15F temperatures.
May everyone find their foot zen.

Feels good to post again.

-Barry
-The mountains were made for Teva’s

I carry a small piece of closed cell foam cut from a Z-rest pad. It's large enough for me to sit on, so I can use it on breaks and in camp to keep my butt insulated from the cold ground or the rock I am sitting on. At night I put this sit pad inside my sleeping bag under my feet. The extra insulation helps a lot in keeping my feet warm. Dual use, so the extra ounce or so makes sense for me.

Down booties help too, of course :)

As previously mentioned, a hot water bottle and a warm hat or hood make all the difference in the world. I boil some extra water before I go to bed, dump it in a Nalgene, and toss it in the bottom of my bag. Depending on how many hours of sleep I get, it'll still be slightly warm in the morning.

Most of the time though, a beanie, or if it's really cold, a hood and beanie, will go a long way to making sure my feet aren't cold.