Double Rainbow vs. Lunar Duo

I have a gray lunar duo. I find it a pleasing color. :-)

I've never worn through a floor. Worn through plenty of zippers and mesh and tent flies. I'd get the lightweight floor. With good site selection a few small punctures won't let in much water, and will still keep out bugs and dirt. I'd use a footprint only if I didn't have to carry it.
I got the heavier floor on the Lunar Solo and have wished I had chosen the lightweight floor. Just go over your tent site carefully to remove buried pine cones, etc.

Agree with Coin.

Thinking about it, even the so-called "heavy" floor is still pretty darn UL and "flimsy" silnylon — meaning you will always need to inspect your tent site and not just plop down your tarptent mindlessly. And if you have to do that carefully anyway — why not just go with the lighter floor?

Also, in my case, because I always like to use a groundsheet (to help protect the floor but also to keep it cleaner and drier) — I'd rather match the groundsheet to a lighter floor than a heavier one.

Ben, what kind of groundsheet do you use? Recently an experienced UL backpacker in my local Sierra Club group showed me a ridiculously thin, light and cheap clear plastic ground sheet material that will last about 10 nights out and then needs to be replaced. Can't remember off the top of my head what it's made of. I don't think it would offer much protection against a sharp puncture from a pine cone.

How much weight does the heavier floor add on the Lunar Duo? If it's only a tiny bit more I'd still probably order it for the extra bit of durability. I like the idea of using it with the thin super light plastic sheeting above to keep it clean.

Lunar Duo heavier floor adds 4 ounces.

Your friend may have been using a gossammer gear polycro groundsheet… weighs 1.5oz. I'm surprised to hear that it needs replacing every 10 nights though. I think plenty of people use them for longer than that.

Tyvek is another choice. More durable and probably less noisy. I haven't used either so can't compare.

Cheers, Ashley

I got the lightweight floor in my Lunar solo, and a tyvek footprint. Punched something thru the tyvek first time I used it. Glad it was me and the tyvek instead of the tent.

EJ:

Ashley got it right — I use the Gossamer Gear polycro — weighing around 1 oz. With careful site inspection and all, one sheet should last much more than just 10 nights.

Tyvek is about 5 times heavier — and a lot bulkier too! So unless you are doing a long, unsupported thru-hike, I would go with the polycro. Heck, even on a long hike, just bring a couple of polycro sheets and they'll still be both lighter and more compact.

I have found what I consider the middle ground. I use a 1.1 oz silnylon sheet. Just ordered a little more while working on a project. It weighs about 3 oz for the typical tent. Silnylon is more durable than polycro and lighter than Tyvek. It doesn't take up as much room as Tyvek and its easier to handle than Polycro. It's pretty cheap too if you buy seconds from Thru-hiker.

I got the heavier floor. I like the added durability and true waterproofness. I don't live in the western US, I live in MN – the land of 10,000 lakes. The ground is often wet here, especially in the spring, or if it's been raining for a few days.

Ashley and Ben, yes, that was it, a polycro ground sheet. Michael, that's a good idea about the SilNylon ground sheet at 3 oz – sounds like a good compromise. I like the idea of the more durable and waterproof floor to handle continuously wet ground as Dan mentioned, and offer some more durability, and I also like to have a ground sheet to keep the floor material clean.

Are there any down sides to the SilNylon ground sheet? If the Silnylon weights only 2 oz more than Polycro, that's not a terrible penalty (by my standards) for a 2 person tent.

Does the Polycro offer any real puncture protection over the heavier floor?

Thinking about either the heavier floor + a silnylon or polycro ground sheet, or a lighter floor + a silnylon ground sheet. Which of these combos would you recommend?

Any other Lunar Duo owners out there, which floor/ground sheet combo do you use?

Tent floor options:
Heavy floor (+4 oz) or light floor (-4 oz)

Ground sheet options:
*No ground sheet: with heavier floor
*Polycro, 1 oz: + lightest, – less durable, – harder to work with
*1.1 oz Silnylon, 3 oz: + easier to work than polycro, + more durable than polycro
*Tyvek, 6.5 oz: + more durable, – bulky, – heavy

Dan, do you use a ground sheet with your heavier floor, to keep the material clean, and if so, which material do you use?

No groundsheet. That's why I got the heavier floor – less fuss for me, and not much difference in weight.

Someone commented here about sloppy seam sealing by SMD on the Lunar Duo – did you find this to be the case with your Lunar Duo?

Do you recommend doing this on your own instead of having SMD do it? If SMD did a good job, I'd rather save the time on my end and pay the extra for it. If not, I'd rather do it right on my own.

Would you seal on both sides, or only on the inside or outside? How many hours do you think the job would take?

Which sealer would you use for the Lunar Duo's material?

Seam sealing is a bonding ritual between you and your new tent. Why get somebody else to do it ?
Did we not abolish the right of the first night (droit du seigneur if you are French like me) sometime ago ?
Franco

Thanks Franco…I don't know if I'll ever quite get the image of SMD doing things with my Lunar Duo out of my head.

Time is at a premium these days. If it isn't too time consuming, I'd do it myself. How long do you estimate it would take?

And would you do one side or both sides?

Do it yourself.

Seam sealing issues are not limited to SMD. I had Henry seam seal my DR and he shot me an email after he shipped it saying that he was in a rush and wasn't sure if he did a good job. He suggested I water test it and reapply where needed. At least he gave me a heads up, but in the end, it's a manual process to do it, and it's best to do yourself.

I actually liked doing it myself. The LD is much easier to do though. There are no seams over head – it's a solid canopy, so even if you miss, it's not going to drip on you. The DR has several seams over head, so you need to really get them all good. I also found that it took a bit more effort/coats to get my DR to not leak through areas where the webbing/velcro was stitched in with the silnylon (i.e. the guy line tie outs on the arch pole and the straps that hold the doors open when you roll them up).

looking at where the seams are maybe 2 1/2 hour to 40 min sessions (?) .
Recently I did the Scarp, after the first coat I was in the mood so I started the Sublite Tyvek. About 15 min later I had finished that too so did the inside as well.
Seriously give it plenty of time to dry (24 hours) particularly after the second coat .
As for the method I have used syringes,paint brushes, sponges and my finger. Provably the SilNet version is the easiest but most expensive.
Some recommend " Permatex Flowable Silicone " a windshield sealant (from the auto part section) . That is already diluted like the SilNet.
(never used that but if I find it I will try it out)
Franco

I was very disappointed in the seam sealing job on my Lunar Solo. Too thick in places, and in spots on the tent body somehow. I really wish I had done it myself. In fact, I'll probably do it over so I can trust it.

I deeply regret it when people dislike the work we do at Six Moon Designs. With respect to seam sealing, we’ve sealed hundreds of tents over the last couple of years and maybe have had one returned to be resealed. I can also understand how someone may consider our efforts as inferior to their standards of sealing. So bear with me a moment or two as I explain our operation. This explanation is not offered as an excuse for supposed shoddy work, but simply to help people acquire information needed to form realistic expectations. Nor does this explanation absolve us of the duty to continually refine and improve our practices. I’ll also post something similar to our website in coming days to clarify our seam sealing practices.

My own first preference would be for people to do the sealing themselves. It’s not a difficult task but one which will help you to get to know your shelter better. However, since many have neither the time or patience, we do offer this as a service.

I should also note that operation of seam sealing a single tent verses many is quite different. When sealing my own shelter, I like to wait for nice warm sunny days where I can setup the tent and seam seal the tent then leave it alone to dry. This of course is not possible when sealing hundreds of tents throughout a rainy Pacific Northwest winter. Nor is practical on our long sunny summer months.

When sealing for customers, we typically seal as many as 5 tents in a batch and on occasion more. With drying times typically running around 2 days, during the winter months, it’s not unusual to have as many as 10 tents hanging and drying at any time. We also change our mixture of silicone to mineral spirits for different seasons. In the Winter it’s a little thinner because the thicker solution does not cure as fast during the more humid months. In the warm summer months, the thicker solution will generally cure within 24 hours.

To seam seal the tents and tarps, we lay them out on a large 6’ X 12’ table. How the sealant is applied varies depending upon the seam. Most of the seams are stretched apart and the sealant is injected directly via a syringe. Other seams are painted by a small brush. Both seam sealing solutions (thick and thin) we use, will adequately penetrate the seams and provide excellent seam sealing. Needless to say the thinner solution is more app to spread when the shelters is manipulated.

Once all of the seams have been coated, the tent is then hung to dry. Unfortunately this is the step that’s most likely to cause problems. Our main workroom is a relatively small 20’ X 30’ area where a multitude of tasks are performed, including inspecting and folding tents, prepping packs, making prototypes and fixing gear. In general it’s a pretty busy area. We do have a dedicated undisturbed area for drying tents. However, it’s not very large and the hanging tents do come into contact with each other.

Over the last couple of years we’ve made a number of improvements to our seam sealing procedures. And we’re always on the hunt to do better. Still, even in the best of all possible worlds, we won’t have the space needed to lay tents out undisturbed to cure. Hopefully someday a better solution will be available that will eliminate this issue.

Ron Moak
Six Moon Designs

I had Tarptent seamseal one of my shelters – It was done absolutely perfect.

I appreciate the response Ron. I do love my Lunar Solo. And I didn't re-read the entire thread, so I didn't realize I had posted before on here. Wow, that makes me look – starts with a b, and rhymes with itchy. I can imagine that trying to seal tents on an industrial level is quite the trial. I should have been more gracious, and just mentioned that it is so fast and easy to to yourself on a sunny day, that there is really no reason to have the factory do it.

My perception of SMD is very good.

BTW it's "bear", brother, not "bare". Unless you're getting a group of streakers together.

…

Joe:

Factory seam sealed or lovingly done at home — I highly recommend that you do a rain test — not just a 5-minute garden hose test that really doesn't reflect reality — but a good overnight rain soak — before taking any new tent out into the wilds.

More is not better — you just need enough sealant to block out a full night's worth of rain — and thick globs of the stuff is no guarantee either.

Good idea Ben, but do you have any idea how many years I might have to wait for an overnight soaking rain?