So who else is going to wait and not buy an insulatig jacket this year?

[Brett Peugh]

I was thinking of getting a new insulating jacket this year (probably synth) but I wondered how many people are going to be like me and wait for this whole waterproof/resistant down thing to get tested and shake out to see where things lie then in 6 months to a year? I know it if does work out I am getting rid of the down quilt and down jackets I have.

[Mary D]

I have an almost-new down puffy. By the time it needs replacement, I'll probably be too old to care!

[Stephen M]

I just bought a used MB Ex light yesterday and a new Synthetic puffy last month (both nearly half rrp) but if I was in the market for a new heavy weight down piece I would probably hold on to see what happens with Dwr down.

[James holden]

how often do you need to buy new puffies …

if its more than once every 5+ years, maybe a bit less for synth … your either a professional climber … or youre spending more time buying and selling gear than going out and using it …

people have used non DWR down fine for decades, if and when yr old puffy wears out, then look for it to see if it holds up to the test of time …

theres always s shinier, lighter, cooler piece of gear around the corner ;)

[Stephen M]

Very true Eric,

I only bought a new synthetic as Outdoor Research replaced my Chaos under warranty and it turned out the replacement had 30% less insulation so it was not warm enough for the job.

[Mike Oxford]

Soon we'll all be wearing inflatable-strut-parkas(made of carbon nanotubes) with vacuum chambers.

More insulation? Pump up the struts! Less? Deflate them to thin out the vacuum chambers.

Really!

-mox

(And no you cannot patent it because, due to this post, it is now in the public domain. :)

[Loki Cuthbert]

you mean like this one?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2075028552/ulaar-jacket

-Loki

[Yes 1000]

I was sitting the fence waiting for the water repellent down, I had one EB down jacket which I use for around the town. Then came the Golite deal and I bit one and got a hooded Bitterroot jacket.

Justification is that, if its very cold ( like below freezing, 20's F) there won't be rain and all percep will be in form of snow. Worst case I will be using this down jacket sitting around the camp or wearing it in the sleeping bag. IF I'm really cold moving, I will layer up my EB 60gm synth jacket.

May be I will apply additional coat of DWR if the jacket is not shedding snow as expected

[Eugene Smith]

Buy a new insulating jacket?

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how to rid myself of just one more!

I currently own a single 60g synth parka and one midweight down parka. I can pair them both up for freaking cold, and wear either one for everything else. It may not be the ideal gear set somewhere down the road, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. You really can do more with less, just requires a little compromise in areas that don't effect the end result. One of the many things I've learned from BPL over the few years, is the trend to turn a simple activity into a technical pursuit filled with uber gadgets and big ticket materials. This isn't necessary. I've stepped back.

The hydrophobic treated down is interest peaking, but it isn't a "game changer" and wouldn't drastically change my simple approach to backpacking. Affordability is often the first or second point in my criteria when hunting down a piece of gear. Trending and breakthrough materials/processes don't usually coincide with that major point.

I can wait.

[Tim Zen]

Saving our $$ for his/her fishnet base layers.

[Randy Martin]

Agreed Eugene. It can be very tempting to buy highly specific gear that might see a handful of uses a year when a small compromise will get the job done. Just tonight I talked myself out of using a 40% off coupon to purchase the FA Peak XV jacket for uber cold conditions. The reality is if it is really that cold (below zero) I will probably just stay home.

[Luke Schmidt]

I may need to replace a few things but right now I'm in the save money mode. My theory is right now I'm long on time and short on cash so money saved is another chance to actually hike.

Right now I mostly use synthetic insulation. Yes I can us down and I have but I like the simplicity of synthetic gear.

Edit – Another factor holding me back is I usually use a down vest. In really cold weather I layer that under a synthetic jacket. In that case a normal vest is fine. And if I just take the vest its usually pretty warm and a damp vest isn't a life threatening situation so why spend extra money on that?

[Aaron]

Well said, Eugene. Well said.

Plus, I'm lucky enough to live in a super dry environment, so the premium price isn't worth it for me.

[MFR]

Wisdom from Eugene. Preach on.

[Raymond Estrella]

“Soon we'll all be wearing inflatable-strut-parkas(made of carbon nanotubes) with vacuum chambers.”

That is funny Mike. A few days ago I read about Buckliballs and yesterday I was wondering if they could be the way to finally achieve the holy grail of synthetic down. Depends on how much it can compress and what it takes to re-inflate I suppose.

http://www.gizmag.com/buckliball/21954/

To answer the question I can't remember ever getting a down coat or parka wet to the point it affected the down inside. So while the waterproof down is interesting I wouldn't wait for it should I be in the market for a new puffy.

I like the idea better for sleeping bags and quilts as those I have gotten damp enough to notice clumping.

[Jerry Adams]

There are garments with inflatable tubes that you fill with argon

Not as good as vacuum but better than normal air

[a b]

Bought a Western Mountaineering Flash Jacket and Flash pants 4 days ago.

Everytime i come home from work i put them on and open the windows.

Just grabbed the reciept:
WM Flash Pant size M less 10% disc 157.50
WM Flash XR Jacket size m less 10% 301.50

subtotal 459.00
tax 38.44
total 497.44

ALL at Mel Cottons in San Jose Ca.

WM bags are made in San Jose.. their clothing is made in Canada,

I waited 20 years since buying my first WM gear (at Mel Cottons).

After seeing Tony Wong (BPL member) prance around at the GGG,in his Montebell insulated pants, i simply had to have my own.

Tried to buy American, but WM clothing is Canadian Made.
I love the Canadians so i bought it.

Have a superb set of down insulated pants and jacket now.

Yes, go ahead and check out the Proloft XR shit.
Personally i don't put any faith in DWR.
Seen every kind of it fail.
Still gonna treat this stuff like a baby's skin.

[Stephen M]

Ab,
My down parka is made by Ben Swith in the deep South and down trousers by Feathered Friends in Seattle.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

As a WM Megalite bag owner I am definitely going to get the WM Flash pants to go with my Eddie Bauer down jacket. Maybe I'll also spring for some REI eVent pants to protect the Flash pants and pair with my eVent REI Kimtah parka.

Flash pants 1st, then to REI to see which size of REI eVent pants fits over them properly – then wait on a 20% sale. (Timing, timing.)

P.S. As mentioned here in another post I'm waiting to see how well the new down DWR treatments "wash out" in real world field use. And it MAY be that Patagonia's DWR deposition method will prove to be the best. i.e. treating every bit tiny of every down plumule. That, rather than the chemicals themselves, may be the key.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

@ Ray E.

I HAVE had a good TNF down parka so thoroughly wetted it had no insulation, and that in minus 5 F. temps!

I wore my backpack for 2 hours of slogging through 1 1/2 ft. of dry snow in the Allegheny mountains of western Pennsylvania. When I took my pack off I had virtually NO insulation in the parka's back because it was soaked with sweat. Took many hours to dry it. Same thing happened the following day – natch.

I sold it and bought an Alpine Designs (remember them?) synthetic insulated winter parka. It worked great for ten years.

[Warren Greer]

Just buy one of these and for $29.99 plus tax you'll be just fine. It's 12 oz, but warm and can be used for a jacket or worn as pants as part of a sleep system with your other jacket. Save some bucks in the process. Kinda what Eugene is getting at.

[a b]

Yes, just buy yet another chinese slave labor made item.. Blissfully unaware and unculpable. Costco, Walmart, Kmart, Apple.. We Are Directly Supporting Slave Labor.

[Mark Andrews]

I actually couldn't help myself and bought TWO insulation layers today.

First I swung by REI and grabbed a Revelcloud Hoodie for $80 and then I ran into EB and sweet talked my way into using a 20% off card along with the 40% off Black Friday sale…frankly, I couldn't pass up the EB Downlight Hoody for $113 out the door!

-Mark in St. Louis

[James holden]

Yes, just buy yet another chinese slave labor made item.. Blissfully unaware and unculpable. Costco, Walmart, Kmart, Apple.. We Are Directly Supporting Slave Labor.

lol … ever notice that the $$$$ patagucci down sweater is made in vietnam and china ;)

better stop typing on your computer … its made in slavery in some hell hole country

i love slaves …

[Brett Peugh]

Personally, I try to use fleece whenever possibly. It is my main insulation layer when it starts to get cold. I use both a Pat R2 and some Expedition weight bottoms.

I have a Montbell UL Down Jacket (which is for sale) from a few years ago but I never use it because when it is cold around here to use it around freezing the air is usually damp and I don't want to take the chance. And for far below freezing I have a Montbell Alpine Jacket with a Nunatak Down Balaclava.

It would be nice to get a 100g/m2 synthetic jacket for the in-between places where the fleece is not enough and the down jacket is too much. It is just that I hate spending lots of money on pieces like synthetic that I know are not made to last for the long haul. A nice lightweight waterproof down might fit this niche if I wanted to spend big money otherwise a really cheap 100/g/m2 synth would do the trick. I know people really like 60g/m2 but those are barely warmer than my R2 and for just a few ounces more I can get a lot more warmth out of a 100g/m2. The Costco Parka sounds nice but there is not one even close to me and online does not show it. I was going to buy a $50 100 g/m2 Stoic but it sold out before I could get to it.

I don't think synthetic jackets are made in the USA. Or computers for that matter. It would be nice if someone could make one that was basically 6 openable compartments (left, right, back, collar, left arm and right arm) so that you could swap the segments out after a few years. Tha jacket that is.

But if the waterproof down really does work out if will be nice for the quilts and bags. And it would provide a nice safety check on a down jacket so that you just would not have to worry about them as much.

[Author]

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