Do you pack your “survival essentials” on you rather than in your pack?

I try to keep survival items in my worn clothing.

Survival for Kids
http://equipped.org/kidsrvl.htm

Hey Brian,
You'll have to excuse my answer as I am more into the basics than over-kill.

First of all, I hope you are going to be camping at a lake or some where with something to do. After hiking only 2 1/2 miles, he's still going to have a lot of energy to burn.
I would just advise 2 things. Teach him that if you are going to out of sight at any time to never go further than a whistle's distance away.
If he is going to wonder, teach him the surroundings from an easy place to find where you can meet if lost. A distinct peak or staying near one side of a stream and knowing how to follow it back could be much more beneficial than a lot of safety items.
You will also be teaching him how to be more connected to the land than the dependency of his gear.

The most important thing would be to practice using the survival gear, as you've said you plan to do.

Items I think might be questionable are the magnifier lens, the leatherman juice, and the fishing equipment. Since you list it under warmth, I assume the magnifier lens is to start a fire. There are much simpler ways, such as matches and lighters. Of course, providing those means making sure to stress the importance of not playing with them and only using them in dire need.

I would assume if he were lost an intensive search would follow soon. A few energy bars would be much easier for him to eat than trying to put together a fishing rig from hooks, sinkers, and swivels, then finding bait, catching, cleaning, and cooking fish. So I'd recommend some snack foods over the fishing gear.

A tiny pocket knife instead of the Leatherman would probably suffice to cut cord, thread, etc.

A large heavy duty trash bag can be better than a Heatsheet, because they can actually get inside it and not have the wind whipping the edges open. If you can find an orange one, that's even better, because it becomes a signaling devise. Then teach him how to find sheltered areas in the woods.

Maybe you could package all or most of this in a Nalgene or other wide top water bottle, which could be carried on the belt or over the shoulder in a bottle holder, and which would give him a much more reliable water container than a bit of foil or a zip-lock bag.

I do commend you for thinking about all this. I'm sure the parents of the recent lost children wish they had.

John –
Thanks for the link. The site looks to have some great content.

Aaron –
We are planning to hang out at the lake for the evening/night/morning then hike out the next afternoon. I am sure he could hike longer as he’s a strong kid (80#) but I don’t want to push him too hard on his first trip out. While we are at the lake, we’ll also practice setting up our tent and tarp among other skills to work on. I’m hoping by the end of the season he can do 10 miles per day (or more?). I’ve got his base pack weight at 10 pounds (he’s completely self sustained) and I expect this to decrease as we feel more confident. While he’ll carry some food and water, I plan to carry most of it to keep his pack weight at a reasonable level. The other day I had him jot down a list of things he wanted to do on our trip. I’ll list them below as I find them funny: — play poker with acorns, play mini chess, fish, read, cook and eat, shoot sling shots, practice using a knife, watch sunset, sleep in, take pictures — Overall I think he’s planned a fun day in a remote part of the local lake. Regarding your comments on less reliance on gear and more on being connected to the land – I agree completely. But another part of me also feels that being prepared and responsible (with a reasonable but limited supply of survival gear) are also important lessens to learn.

Pamela –
Darn, I initially listed the Leatherman Juice (4.4oz) which is twice the weight of the Squirt P4 (1.95oz) that I meant to list (OP edited). The Squirt is quite small and packable. The magnifier lens and fishing gear came with the AMK survival kit. I think AMK (or was it Doug Ritter?) even commented that the fishing gear was more to “pass the time” than to provide sustenance. To keep weight down I agree with you that the lens and fishing gear could be left at home. A few snack bars would be nice as long as the kit doesn’t get to large (I want him to leave it on). I didn’t think about tossing in a mini bic lighter and a few water/wind proof matches. I also like the idea of using an orange or red trash bag rather than the heatsheet. Lastly, packing it all in a wide mouth nalgene container with a bottle holder is a great idea! I was struggling with how to keep this on him and not cause bulk under his pack’s waist belt.

Much thanks to the three of you!

I'm not an expert, but I would ADD: a hooded raincoat and a hooded fleece or down jacket. I would SUBTRACT:
"Pencil and Waterproof Note Paper
10’ blaze orange trail marking tape
Magnifier Lens [2" x 3"]
Heavy Duty Aluminum Foil [3 sq. ft.]
Stainless Steel Utility Wire [6 ft. of 0.020"]
Heavy Duty Sewing Needle
2- Safety Pins #3
2 Fish Hooks, 2 Sinkers, 1 Snap Swivel (Use nylon thread above)."

Sounds great. You guys are going to have a lot of fun! I think you'll be surprised how soon your son will be hiking much further, but there's no less fun in a 5-mile overnighter.

>1) Do you or your kids carry a small pack, lanyard, etc on them at all times that contains survival essentials?

My kids are 5 and 3, so they carry just a few items in a small pack: water, snacks, fleece and a waterproof jacket. Total weight is about three pounds. Each member of our family group has a whistle and an LED light on a lanyard with a frangible link (a bit that separates if the lanyard is yanked), worn around their neck at all times. We hike in cat country, so having something loud readily available is important. The rest of the gear they could actually use if they were lost. They usually have a toy or two, so they keep their pack with them.

We allow the kids to blow their whistles with abandon at the trailhead for precisely 10 seconds. After that, the rule is, "a whistle means trouble." If they're in trouble, they are to stay put and blow their whistle. If they blow their whistle and they aren't in trouble, then they're in trouble. So far we haven't had anybody 'whistle wolf' (wolf whistle?).

>2) If so, what do you use to attach said items to yourself (e.g. belt pack, lanyard, small sack clipped to a belt, etc)?

Besides the whistle, I carry my non-bulky essentials in a belt pack; the rest is in my pack. I wear the belt pack all the time, in or away from camp.

>For those interested, I’ve listed the essential items below which I initially think would be useful in the event he were to get lost. My son and I continue to talk about the potential uses for the gear and practice using them.
>4) Would you add or subtract from the list?

I think that the conversation and practice is definitely a good thing to do. However, we don't let the kids have any items that they don't know how to use, that would encourage them to do anything other than stay in one place, or with which they could harm themselves or that would encourage them into a potentially dangerous situation. This depends, of course, on age. For instance, my nephews were able to begin carrying a knife when they were your son's age, but they could only use it in the presence and with permission of an adult. The consequence, of course, was losing that privilege. Absolutely no firestarting gear. No survival fishing gear (trying to catch fish by a slippery stream or lake with a handline is much more dangerous than going without food). We also don't give them a paper and pen or flag tape, which might suggest leaving notes or markers and moving around rather than staying put.

The list seems to be focused on 'survival' rather than 'rescue.' Nothing wrong with that, and those skills are something every hiker should acquire. But I guess I'd start with the items crucial to holding out for rescue (whistle, warmth, waterproof as shelter, water and food) rather than the items that require woodscraft and are focused on longer-term self-rescue. Those items could be 'group gear' while your son learns to repair his own equipment, etc.

The most important items aren't something you carry: they are awareness, knowledge, risk assessment and clear thinking. The gear will only help if you think to use it–many people have died of hypothermia without even putting on all their clothes. You can foster these skills through your discussion of the gear, not just how to use it, but why (and why not). Discuss rescue scenarios so the child has concrete examples of what to do (and not do) if they are lost.

Brian, Doug said it best in that excellent post. I might be able to add something. I lead day hikes of small groups. Some of my fellow hikers are not children, but usually the girls are absolute beginners to hiking. Despite my distributed lists of suggested gear, some of them still show up wearing jeans, and with minimal gear.

I consider these day hikes low-risk, but also good practice for a future trip when they might actually get lost. In dense forests it is surprising how quickly one can become disoriented and lose sight of camp/group. So, more with the intent of practicing for longer treks, I give them each a whistle, light, and a space blanket. Maybe a fleece and or shell depending on the weather, and what they brought.

The idea if lost, is to stay put and wait for someone to find you. Priority here is on producing light and sound in order to facilitate being found, not on survival skills. I definietly dont want them having a knife, fishhooks, and I dont want them consumed in a forest fire so no matches.

I like the idea of everyone trying out the whistle at the trail head; Im going to use that one.

One of our members, Denis, has years of experience leading groups of amateurs and experts alike; Red Leader, would you care to chime in here?

Here's what I distribute to my fellow hikers
Coghlan's 5-in-1 whistle ($4.50)
LED keychain light ($1)
Loan of one or more of the following: Space blanket, fleece, shell, to ensure they are warm and waterproofed.

Ideally, I wish everyone in my group would carry the essentials. To stay on the same sheet of music, I use the Mountaineering-Freedom of the Hills grouping of items:
Mountaineering 10 essential systems (modified slightly)
1. Navigation (map, compass, gps)
2. Sun protection (lotion, hat)
3. Insulation (synthetic top and bottom)
4. Illumination/signal (flashlight/whistle)
5. First-aid supplies
6. Fire making
7. Repair kit and tools
8. Nutrition (1 day's food)
9. Hydration (1 day's water)
10. Shelter (Rainwear, bivy)

Another vote for Doug Ritter's site, equippedtosurvive; he is the defacto leader in civilian survival preparadness IMO. I had the honor of participating in one of his tests, and was very impressed with his professionalism.

I notice that a signal mirror is not on many people's lists. I always carry a light and a whistle on a lanyard… but for visual signaling… a light won't help you much during daylight. The newer signal mirrors… made from plasic (Lexan) and with a "retro-reflective" mesh… are very light (15-20 grams) and easy to use. I've never carried one myself… but after watching a few too many epsiodes of "I'm too stupid to be alive"… I mean… "I shouldn't be alive"… I'm getting a little paranoid I guess :) That's gotta suck.

And yes… I carry a few essentials on a lanyard and my first aid kid in my pocket (It's pretty tiny)…. but I should probably get a belt pack so I could carry more things outside my main pack… like a few energy bars and my rain gear… etc. Any suggestions for an ultralight belt pack? That doesn't seem to be something that any of the cottage industry folks make. I guess they figure it's a worn item which is pretty light to start with. Plus… if you happen to find yourself falling down an embankment some day… with your main pack shredded and / or lost in the process… you'd probably want your belt pack to be made of something a little more robust than 0.6 oz Cuben Fiber :) Doesn't do much good to have those essentials on your person if the pack carrying them shreds and everything falls out.

Brett just posted this above but for those who are skimming, the following list, compiled over the course of many decades by alpinists and mountaineering professionals for "The Freedom of the Hills" is about as honed as can be. It's verbage is open-ended enough to allow for personal interpretation.

1. Navigation
2. Sun protection
3. Insulation
4. Light
5. First-aid
6. Fire
7. Repair kit
8. Nutrition
9. Hydration
10. Shelter

I very much appreciate the responses. Great suggestions by all!

I would like to clarify that my son does have the 10 essentials either in his backpack or in what ever I come up with (small belt pack, wide mouth Nalgene, etc) for him to wear all of the time. I am concerned that as you add more “always carry” gear he’ll be tempted to take it off (too heavy). Seems best to keep it minimal so he forgets that it is on him (at least until he needs it).

I can’t agree more that teaching him how to safely use the gear (not starting a forest fire, etc) is imperative. I never thought about him slipping on a rock and falling in a stream while trying to fish (I am definitely leaving hooks and sinkers home)!

I think it is an excellent point raised by several posters above that his primary focus should be rescue followed by survival, then by relocation only if absolute necessary (staying put is what he’s been told to do). In keeping with this prioritized list, perhaps I should distribute the gear in this fashion.

1) Break-away type lanyards containing:
Rescue contents:
– whistle
– Photon Freedom Microlite
– a small lexan signal mirror

2) A small belt pack of sorts (this is hard to find, most are too heavy and bulky, perhaps I should make my own) that contains:
Rescue contents:
Orange or red large trash bag (signalling device, make shift poncho/wind jacket, and shelter)

Survival contents:
-Fire source: Spark lite / mini bic / a few water/wind proof matches / tinder / aluminum foil [windscreen]
– For rigging a shelter: heavy duty nylon thread [50 ft.] and braided nylon cord [10 ft., 150 lb. test]
– Emergency repair (not sure if all of this is needed?): leatherman squirt P4, duct tape [2" x 24"], sewing needle, 2- safety pins, stainless steel utility wire [6 ft. of 0.020"]

Food/water:
– Water source: 4 Chlorine Dioxide tablets (zip lock bag for container)
– 2-3 high caloric energy bars

Relocation contents:
-10’ blaze orange trail marking tape / pencil and waterproof paper (very light and can be used to mark his location if he’s “hunkered down” or has to relocate)
-20mm Survival Compass

3) Backpack that contains (remaining gear needed, e.g. sleep, cooking, shelter, cloth systems) and the remaining essentials:
Navigation (map and real compass, GPS with FM transceiver?)
Sun protection (lotion, hat)
Insulation (synthetic top and bottom)
First-aid supplies
Nutrition (1 day's food)
Hydration (1 day's water)
Shelter (Rainwear, he carries a GoLite Lair 1)

Thanks again!

The group of men and daughters (now 9-12y, started with 7-9y) that I take trips with have been pretty consistent. We don't set up a basic camp and then do day hikes, so packs more or less go everywhere we do until we set up camp. We don't carry a separate or special 10 essentials. The base gear we have in the pack already covers shelter, warmth, water, food, navigation, etc.

Once camp is set up, the kids stay close enough to camp that we could hear if they blow a whistle. We have taught them to identify a set of landmarks which will guide them back to camp and not to go beyond where they can see the landmarks. Most of the girls will have a whistle and a micro light in their pocket or around there neck. In the last year most have also taken to carrying a small knife… not some much for survival as much as they like carving sticks.

As others have mentioned, knowledge is the key ingredient. On group trips, especially when not is the far back country, I would recommend focusing on being found / not getting lost rather than "survival".

–Mark

This one from Road Runner Sports is 3oz listed but can be made 2oz with some mods. It is very well made and has a contoured fit.

Thanks Mark! Good advice…

Jhaura –
That pack looks exactly like what I was looking for! Do you have any idea what the approximate internal dimension of the pack is? Currently our rescue survival kit dimensions are 6” in length x 4” tall x 2” wide but it will be streamlined after some feedback here.

Jhaura: Thanks for the tip. I'm gonna get me one of them thar extry special light-wate beauties!

Brian,

The outer fabric of the main pocket is stretch mesh, so your kit will fit after streamlining no problem. There is also an internal 3×3" or so pocket with a velcro closure sewn in.

Thanks!

Brett et al,

In our CARRYING A GOOD THING TOO FAR beginning backpackers workshop we encourage people to have a way to conveniently carry their first-aid kit, map and compass, water, food (snacks), an insulating jacket, and a rain shell, if we're leaving our packs and/or camp for a "side" hike. We emphasize the importance of having your map and compass readily at hand, not burried in their pack. We practice stopping at easily identified landmarks, ie. streams, saddles, switchbacks, etc, and knowing where they are at all times. One year a woman didn't agree with my directions and never had her map handy. She told us "Denis knows where we are. He'll get us where we're going." I answered, "But what if I drop dead, and you have to guide the group out?" It didn't impress her. The good thing is, I believe she gave up backpacking. Rather than approaching the safety aspect as "Survival" we call it common sense and accepting responsibility for your own actions. At the first class meeting I tell them "this isn't a guided tour." "It's a chance for you to grow and expand your horizons, in safety, while having fun." At the end of our seasons class most of them agree. In the past 20 seasons we've lost three but found them again. Or, as in two of those instances, they've used the skills we teach, and found us. Our website is up and running again: http://www.cagttf.com.

Great thread. You will make some good memories with your son. If you are located in Michigan, shoot me an e-mail or ask me to post here. I have done some fun hikes with my son and would be glad to share them with you.

I found a great resource in http://www.survival.com 's Mini and Maxi kits. The mini kit can fit into an altoids can and is very easy to carry. Check it out, I purchased all the DVDs there after reading the forums, quite incredible stuff.

It's been mentioned before, but the importance of extra calories can't be overstated.

A thousand calories can keep you from hypothermia for the night, or stop your hands from shaking so you can construct shelter and get a fire burning. More importantly, with a little boost in blood sugar you can make make good decisions. And good decisions are what get people through emergencies.

Thanks all –

I agree with the concept of using calories to keep things straight.

I recently listened to an audio book titled: “Deep Survival: True Stories of Miraculous Endurance and Sudden Death.” By Laurence Gonzales. It was an interesting report of how the mind (and those which it directs) behaves in survival situations. The book is not a how to survive (make this – do that) book but rather how to think like a survivor. His account of people not staying put but thoughtlessly racing through the woods, and doing other bizarre things, is alarming. The book solidifies many of the suggestions and comment made in this thread.

I'm surprised that Erin McKittrick hasn't chimed in. I believe that she carries a pack with no hip belt, and a fanny pack with her 10 essentials that acts as a "shelf" for the pack. That way the bare essentials are always along, no matter what. It sounds like a great solution; I'm chicken to invest in trying it.

I keep my Doug Ritter kit in one cargo pocket and my minor wound kit and space bivy in the other. It's not the most efficient, mobility-wise, but I *hate* things hanging around my neck and swinging. The only exception for neck-wear is my Spyderco Native III. That even comes with me when I'm naked.