Water purification

Referring to Benjamin's list above:

>For those who want to kill all three groups of badies (viruses, bacteria and cysts), the following options can be used…

PJ has brought to our attention another kind of nasty: hydatid tapeworms. Option 1 does not kill these, nor possibly option 4 (I think they're mentioned as UV resistant). Only options 2 and 3 are effective against all 4 groups. Thus, I'd like to propose another option, which is also effective against all four groups:

5. Mechanical and UV: filter the bigger stuff out (any type of filter, since we only need to remove relatively large objects), then zap the water with UV rays for one minute. This order ensures proper pre-filtering of the water for effective UV treatment.

The proper choice of filtration in options 2, 3 and 5 can also meet Benjamin's desire to remove bad flavors and other organic and inorganic contaminants, which could be considered a fifth class of baddie. This is important in areas where apparently pristine streams are contaminated with mine effluent or leachate.

Pamela:

Actually, I give kudos to Micropur for being honest and upfront that while chlorine dioxide can kill cysts/crypto, it does require a ridiculously long wait time (i.e. 4 hours).

My read for BPL is that they seem to go out of their way to be vague — mentioning cysts and crypto so buyers will associate Klearwater with killing these nasties — BUT mentioning the treatment time only as it applies to easy kills like bacteria and viruses! I copy and paste BPL's specifications below:

SPECIFICATIONS

Active ingredient: Chlorine Dioxide 0.15%
Bottle type: Opaque brown glass, 32 ml or 50 ml
Dosing mechanism: Built into cap
Dosage & contact time: 1 ml for 15-30 minutes. Halve dosage and double the treatment time, or double dosage and halve the treatment time. Increase treatment time for cold water temperatures, cloudy water, and treatment of some organisms (e.g., protozoan cysts)

See how they simply mention "increase treatment time" for protozoan cysts (which include crypto)!!! Micropur, on the other hand, spells out 4 hours prominently. The active ingredient for both is identical.

Answering your other question — you can continue to sip water through the Seychelle even at camp (of course) — but it can also be used like a gravity filter — just hang a bladder on a branch and have the water drip through into a clean container below. The speed of gravity feed is actually quite decent, but if you are in a hurry or just want to get a cup quickly — you can also squeeze/roll the bladder to force water through the filter at an even quicker pace.

UV-C is not alone, since Chems may not work as well with turbid water vs. clear water also. Why?

My understanding is at least two reasons:

1) some organic material may harbor and protect larger masses of organisms (one type of biofilm) from exposure to the chemicals

2) some materials may react chemically w/the chems and thus "use up" so to speak some of the active forms of the chemicals which would otherwise be used to kill nasty lil' buggers.

Theoretically, as far as current means of backcountry water purification available to the L/UL backpacker go, a two-step approach is required.

Filter (at least 15-20 micron absolute pore size, though 25 micron might work, but it's at the lower threshold of hydatid tape eggs size, according to my reading) first, then Chems or UV-C for the smaller buggers.

Go with a smaller absolute pore, theoretically, 1 micron to get all/nearly all Crypto (as Crypto can fold over on itself – i've actually seen this under a light microscope – though, IME, it's somewhat rare, but i've only observed Crypto a few/handful of times and NOT many times – so would hesitate to draw any statistical conclusions, with high levels of confidence, based upon my personal observations) and other protozoans, and then treat with Chems or UV-C. This will shorten Chem contact time to 30min for bacteria; of course, only dosing time is required for UV-C.

Have those of you who are narrow mouth (Platypus) users considered the Nalgene Canteen? A splashguard and canteen are my next purchases. Just curious.

I have considered these canteens and went so far as to order four (4) of them from BPL to experiment with. I just got them and being the gram weenie that I am I already and wincing at the weight over my narrow month platys. The canteens seem to work well with the SteriPen but it's bad enough I have to eat the weight of the SteriPen over my AquaMira setup but now I need a heavier water bottle. Needless to say I have a ways to go in my evaluation of UV water treatment.

James:

While the "zap for a minute and you're done" methodology is certainly enticing… the other thing I am concerned is brown, turbid water — say after a storm churns up the river or stream. UV effectiveness would be compromised… meaning back to square one again???

>> What are UL backpackers using these days for water purification?
…
am hoping to learn what's new (being an old goat here). <<

For the next three seasons, I just made the switch from Katadyn Hiker filter to Aqua Mira with the BLP bottles.

In addition from going from 11 oz to a just a couple, I'm breaking away from my old goat mindset. Baaahhhh : )

James, I'm guessing that the weight you save from not having to carry much water from source to source more than makes up for the weight of the the Steripen and the Nalgene canteens.

We shall see, Benjamin. That's certainly a consideration. The web site clearly says not to use it on water with "significant discoloration or particulates".

I wonder if "significant discoloration" would include tannins? The water in parts of Wisconsin is tea colored (but clear) in many places I hike.

I'll try it for a year or so and see how it goes. I always need to test something many times before I finally decide if it will work for me. In the end it remains much heavier than my tried and true AquaMira/dropper bottle setup and I'll almost certainly go back to that… but it will be fun to play with.

Hey Dondo… I will tell you one thing I like and that's the idea of stopping, scooping up THAT water from a stream, and drinking it down 90 seconds later. There is an aesthetic component that will be hard to beat. I have a friend that has one of those drinking straw/water bottle setups… I am not a fan of these… but when she dunks it in the stream and starts drinking on the spot I am more than a little green with envy as I fiddle with my dropper bottles. :)

Ben, in my experience, filters clog easily in brown, turbid waters. And chlorine dioxide treatments also suffer in these conditions. A solution in all these cases is to prefilter the water. The Steripen makers offer a prefilter that fits over the mouth of a wide mouth bottle.

Dondo — Very true that filters can get clogged up… but the Steri-Pen prefilter will do nothing to clear up brown river water either. I guess this is no single solution that is ideal.

But I thing I know: referencing George's 's post above, an old goat still beats a sick goat! :)

James, I use to use one of those setups and agree that it's pretty cool. My problem with it was that my hand got tired squeezing the bottle and I didn't like sucking water through the straw.

I've only used the Steripen on one trip but already it's my favorite method. You just dip your bottle, stir for a minute or so, and drink. It's amazing. I almost felt like I was cheating.

Ben, I think our difference on this may be where we hike. I honestly can't remember the last time I had to treat turbid water. Most of the time I get my water from the tiny side streams dripping down from the mountains. These are plentiful where I hike and are almost always clear.

Dondo:

Right indeed. Most alpine mountain streams are pretty clear… but in the lowlands, river water can be completely brown!

Is the tent in your avatar a MontBell Hexagon? How do you like it?

Sometimes that brown color is nothing more than iron. I see that all over the rocky Chebucto Penninsula near my hometown of Halifax, Nova Scotia. The water is fine… but it doesn't look that appealing!!!

I also often hike an amazing penninsula in the province called Cape Chignecto. It's pretty remote with a lot of fast running streams. All of the headwaters are not more than a few K away at the high points of the plateau which the trail circles. No settlements. No livestock. This water is probably fine… and I've hiked that trail with people who just drink right from the streams. I've done it myself actually. Beautiful clear, clean water. But you know… you never know if some small animal may have died upstream or something… so I use Aqua Mira (Pristine) now… just in case.

>>Is the tent in your avatar a MontBell Hexagon? How do you like it?

Ben, the tent in my avatar photo is actually a Montbell Diamond and I like it a lot. It's one of the two most frequently used shelters in my collection, the other being a tarptent.

Dondo,

Do you find the lack of a vestibule limiting in any way?

How is condensation? Do you switch to the tarptent for the warmer, wetter times of the year?

I see snow. Do you need to melt snow, or is flowing water still available where you hike?

What are the three things you like most, and least (if there are three?) about the MB Diamond?

Many thanks in advance,
pj

Oops. Hijack. My apologies. Dondo, feel free to PM me or reply in a new Thread.

pj, good hijack, I was gonna ask him the same question. Actually, I'd love a thread on tent colors – you know, everyone's preferences and reasons. Me, I'm a pirate camper…

Old Goat here did get sick from wilderness water one year when she trusted a boyfriend to purify water from a beaver-inhabited lake. Never again. "Lost" the giardia only after multiple rounds of Flagyl (metronidozole); "lost" the boyfriend more easily. *WHEW* Still, backpacking alone gets old fast.

This is a great discussion and rather well-attended for something that has supposedly already been dealt with. I'm looking seriously at the Steripen and thinking that it would be smart to have more than one method in the arsenal, hang the weight. Well, not hang it but maybe worth a few ounces. He, keep it going.

Hi pj & Mandy, I'll start a new thread on this.

OK we have discussed how various treatments are less effective against certain nasties.

So how do we know what we are facing in a given AO? What are the viruses present? Bacteria and giardia are pretty given… is crypto even around?

Surely they test the waters…. surely someone has this sort of info. Should we call BLM/Rangers Office/DOW who?

"Surely they test the waters…. surely someone has this sort of info. Should we call BLM/Rangers Office/DOW who?"

If you hike in truly wild areas where few people have ever been — you shouldn't have to worry about viruses.

But if you hike on trails — which by definition means that enough people hike on them to warrant building and maintaining them — then I don't think you can assume that any tests done at specific points in time would still be applicable to you at the moment you are drinking.

Crypto is alive and well and present in some water sources.

According to FDA/BBB in ~80% of the adult population of the USofA it can be demonstrated through serological testing that protein specific antibodies to Crypto are present.

Fortunately, most strains produce mild symptoms in healthy individuals. Most of us may never really have know we were exposed to Crypto. There are supposedly some strains that can put an otherwise healthy individual down however.

A lot of people talk about using the BPL droppers for their Aquamira – do you use the same number of drops as recommended by the directions? Has anyone actually checked whether this produces the same amount of liquid?