Soft Shell top and bottoms for genral use in PNW

For the drizzly Seattle area, I really only wear my softshell jacket for casual use these days. It's too heavy for high exertion and not water resistant enough to withstand much rain. I much prefer keeping my insulation and wind/water barriers in separate layers. Light wool shirt; grid fleece; then wind shirt or shell, depending on how much rain I'm anticipating. If I'm hiking fast or snowshoing, the shell is likely to get wetted out just from my sweat, so being able to dump the shell and keep the insulation layers is key to staying comfortable.

I do have a basic pair of softshell pants from REI that are very lightly insulated, somewhat wind resistant, and only slightly water resistant. They're pretty good for winter conditions right around freezing. Colder than that, I go for a couple of layers again.

In my opinion, you would be better off with a lightweight wind shirt that has a DWR coating and wool layers underneath. That would would be breathable and keep you warm even when damp.

I just picked up a "hybrid" softshell jacket- OR Centrifuge, the front, shoulders, hood and part of the arms are a very hard faced fleece w/ DWR- they rest of the jacket is a lightweight grid

David C included it in his article on windshirts, it's not quite a windshirt and not quite a softshell

I've used it for trail running in cold weather and I like it, I think it would be useful x-country skiing and snowshoeing as well

Speaking of hybrids, maybe this is an appropriate place to ask this question……

What's the difference between soft shell and hard fleece?! I recently decided perhaps I should replace my beloved 2003 vintage Nike ACG 2.5 soft shell (or is it hard fleece?! I dunno!??!) and was looking at Arcteryx stuff and noticed a distinction being made between the two. At one point I thought I knew what I was looking into but now I'm fairly clueless. Argh!

that I'm not sure of- I know a lot of softshells are now totally waterproof, but certainly not all of them

http://www.arcteryx.com/HardfleecevsSoftshell.aspx?EN

a more breathable less weather resistance dead bird term for a particular type of "softshell"

get any decent non membrane softshell that fits you and has a hood … you can pick em up for 50-150$ … if youre spending more than that yr paying for the fancy name to show off in bars …

windshirts also do the same job …

Yeah I figured it was all a bunch of marketing hoohah. Only reason I was even considering Arcteryx was because I saw an item on markdown somewhere.

So based on their description I suspect my ancient ACG "2.5" is a soft shell even if the fabric looks a tad thicker than the pictures in the link you provided. My jacket is actually quite warm, suitable with just a merino base, for me, down to about mid 40s. Certainly warmer than the skinny First Ascent down shirt I just returned. So I'm not sure if that's not considered particularly warm or not, at least by modern standards. But it is what it is.

Anyhow, good to know. I just ordered a Rab Cirrus wind shirt so we'll see what all the fuss is about with these overpriced windbreakers (at least I got it on markdown). But I digress. Soft-shells. Need to find a nice one myself so I'll keep people's suggestions in mind and thanks to the OP for bringing this up! I can certainly attest to the unbelievable flexibility with a good soft-shell. Mine has lasted several years and was used from 40 degrees as outer layer (or under a shell) all the way into mid 70's with wind and rain riding a mountain bike.

The typical soft shell jacket is okay around town, but too single purpose and heavy for backpacking. I like soft shell pants for shoulder and winter seasons. If you know the conditions for the day, you might use a soft shell jacket on a day hike or for skiing, etc. The pants work more universally for me. If it gets colder, they layer up well with long johns.

There are so many variations on what could be called "soft shell," from lighter stretch knit type fabrics on out to stuff that is like body armor. I like the lighter stuff for pants.

One thing I have noticed with my pants is that they reach a certain point of water repellency and then you are WET. That mostly means being too lazy to stop and switch to rain pants when it is raining hard vs a drizzle. They have some DWR, but aren't a sub for rain gear. I haven't tried any with a membrane— sounds hot, heavy and expensive to me.

Hard fleece? Like smooth faced fleece? Some are more wind proof, and the smooth face might make sliding between layers easier. There are some that have a hard face and long fleeece inside. I've assumed the hard face was just a cheap way to finish the fabric, like the military "bear" jackets. I have an R4 jacket that has a close cropped outer fleece and a membrane, so it is wind proof, but too hot for exertion. It is just another variant of shift shell —- great for grocery shopping on a cold wet day.

I like a good fluffy 200w fleece for a mid layer, and especially vests. They meld well with wind shirt or rain shell and breath so much better than a hard shelled, thin loft insulated garment.

Purchased a pair of Patagonia Rock Craft soft shell pants. These are stretch woven material and hopefully are comfortable. I'm still thinking on the soft shell jacket, idea is to use it for day hikes (mostly what I normally do) with Cap 1 silk weight base layer.

if they are anything like the Rock Guides they were supposed to replace, you'll like them :)

I've got a OR Mithrilite softshell coming, I'll report my thoughts after it gets some use- it's fully waterproof and has pit zips that run all the way to the waist

For me softshell in the PNW has been a fail. I, myself, may not be wet while using membrane softshells, but the material soaks up a lot of water you'll have to deal with for the rest of the trip. (at least PNW)

My stretch woven Softshell stuff turns into a wet rag and doesnt dry till June, when the sun comes out.

For me, hardshells, as much as I love softshells and WANT to use them, are the only thing that works. Not that only hard stuff keeps me dry, hard stuff holds waaay less water and can actually dry from body heat in our constant 40*F weather. Softshell stays wet. (in PNW sorts of climates)

Mike you will probably love the Mithrilite. Sounds awesome. I've got the Mithril but its a beast. …the light version sounds cool.

What kind of hard shells you are talking about. I got a Patagonia Torrent shell pants which are okay but feels very awkward against your skin. I see that the requirement of an hard shell bottom in Oregon rain is pretty much minimal. My last hike I was in the coastal Oregon where it rained(Drizzled) intermittently and was fine with my nylon hiking pants.

I use OR Foray (pac-lite)pants and OR Revel (shield DS) jkt

Yeah, if you want it against your skin, no hardshell will feel nice IMO. I'm using Under Armour Shirt and tights Next to skin under hardshell stuff to keep the clamminess to a minimum.

Yeah the rain out here is a conundrum. Its not hard enough for rain gear, but its so constant you get soaked if you dont wear it. I stick to thin synthetic under hardshell. not so clammy feeling, not crazy hot, and if I DO get soaked from rain or sweat its only a thin synth layer that dries quickly under my zipped up shell under moderate work.

IMO the length of you trip will determine how seriously you need to take getting wet.

Dayhikes- who cares?
Overnight- keep some dry clothes so you dont get in your SB with wet gear on.
multi nights- you better stay dry.

For all of my theroies I'm assuming temp is around freezing to 45*F

softshell and windshirts are not meant for PNW prolonged rain … the DWR will get overwhelmed … the advantage of a windshirt is that it dries quickly … a non membrane softshell can dry fairly quickly with the right techniques … but it still retains more moisture than a windshirt

the advantage of it is its breathability and durability … especially for climbing

in other words dont expect the softshell or windshirt to keep you dry in rain … the moment it does more than a little drizzle … on goes the rain jacket

I've been extremely happy with my Paramo jacket and a pair of Rock Craft pants for cold, steady PNW rain. The Paramo breathes better than the soft shells I've tried, does a great job of keeping rain out, and dries quickly.

Could you please share the name of the Paramo Jacket you mentioned above.

Windshirts are so light that they aren't a big deal to stow while wearing your rain shell. They meld perfectly with a poncho or cape. Many soft shell jackets are boat anchors, especially if wet. A windshirt and fleecy mid layer will trump most soft shell jackets for performance, weight, versatility and probably cost. You can still wear the mid layer under your rain shell or for sleep.

Odd that soft shell pants seem to work better. I lean to the lighter ones, so the weight difference between the light soft shell pants and nylon pants that I might wear for winter/shoulder season is small. The warmth, stretch, DWR and comfort works for me.

It's the Quito, which is the lightest, most stripped-down jacket they make. It's certainly not ultralight, but it's better suited to our cold, extended rains than anything else I've yet come across. My medium weighs 17 oz.

Finally after trying to get Quito, I fave up for couple of reasons because of all the hassles ordering it out of US.

Went with Mountain Hardwear Trinity jacket, its softshell and fully waterproof and should be suitable for our PNW weather. I will know once I use it :)

I have never ordered Paramo themselves, but I have ordered Cioch direct custom jackets which use same the Nikwax analogy fabric licenced from Paramo, with no problem.
Cioch will now remove the VAT (that's included in the list prices for orders) outside the European Union. This means no hassle ordering, and a pretty good price, even including shipping.

Nikwax Analogy (Paramo) is the most breathable waterproof around by a large margin, it is also very supple and comfortable. The drawback is that you have a fixed liner adding insulation, making it unsuitable for warm weather, and if your jacket is wet at bedtime you can't wear that insulation to bed.

For the conditions described it is hard to think of anything that even comes close in performance.