What is your winter layering system?

Ike-

My system is similar to yours.

Patagonia long sleeve cap 2 base
Patagonia R1 hoody
Patagonia Nano Puff
Stoic Vaporshell
Zpacks Goosedown Hood

Again, my setup is similar to Ike's.

120 g/m wool t-shirt
Cap 4 Hoody (which is absolutely brilliant)
Windshirt of one kind or another (I've got an old Epic shirt to which I'm going to add a fox fur ruff)
Tights
Softshell pants

When it's really cold I also bring a light synthetic puffy and a massive down jacket (MEC Reflex). The syn is good for moving when it's very cold, chores, and has the added bonus of keeping moisture which evaporates out of my clothing from getting into the down parka. I use Micropuff pants as well, the full side zips are very nice.

What initiated this thread was that old RJ article describing a 3 layer system consisting of vapor-rise, softshell jacket, and large synthetic puffy. Got me wondering if I was missing something. Is anyone using stretch woven shells or other protection heavier than a windshirt (for snow, not rain)?

For activity, my winter layering system looks like this:

Base layers:
1 pair heavy weight merino wool socks
1 synthetic bra/panties
1 pair quick-dry synthetic (nylon) pants
1 150 or 200 weight merino wool long sleeve shirt

Outer layers:
Windproof/water resistant snow pants (weight depends on activity and weather)
Windproof/water resistant shell (weight depends on activity and weather)
Vents are an absolute must- I won't buy outerwear that doesn't have venting. I also prefer built in gaiters on my pants.
Vest
Boots (type and insulation level depend on activity and weather)
Gloves (Arctery'x SV Alpha)
Beanie or light balaclava

I generally carry stuffed away in my pack a heavier 300 weight merino sweater, a puffy layer, extra socks, and a heavy weight balaclava also because I tend to not use a lot of layers when I'm moving actively. If I have to stop or hunker down for some reason, I want more layers to stay warm. If it's really cold I'll add synthetic long underwear bottoms to my base layers but my legs rarely get cold.

"What initiated this thread was that old RJ article describing a 3 layer system consisting of vapor-rise, softshell jacket, and large synthetic puffy. Got me wondering if I was missing something. Is anyone using stretch woven shells or other protection heavier than a windshirt (for snow, not rain)?"

The three layer system is exactly what I use in Colorado in the winter.

1] Base Layer – R1 Hoodie
2] Mid Layer – Soft Shell (Mammut Ultimate Hoodie)
3] Outer Layer – Heavy Insulation (First Ascent Igniter which has 100g of Primaloft)

This setup allows me to never have to exchange layers. The Mid Layer is only added when winds pick up or it's snowing or very cold. The outer layer only goes on when I am stopped or if the combination of wind and cold is significant.

"Is anyone using stretch woven shells or other protection heavier than a windshirt (for snow, not rain)?"

I do think for colder wind a heavier fabric which is less easily deflected can be good. The epic shirt I mentioned is an old Patagonia Essenshell which weighs around 9 oz stripped down. Under harsher conditions I prefer it to a standard ~4 oz windshirt.

my winter system is similar- cap 1 ls top, cap 4 hoody (this replaced my R1 hoody) and a windshirt for on the move (can shed either the windshirt or hoody depending on conditions)

softshell pants w/ cap 1 bottoms

insulation- if it's a little warmer, but on the wetter side I'll bring my nanopuff pullover, little cooler MB Alpine Light parka- really cold- both :)

I always carry a balaclava and over/under mitts, but typically wear a light beanie and light gloves on the move

My winter layers can vary quite a bit. As You've experienced before Ike, the weather in my neck of the woods can be quite variable, from warm and sunny to heavy, wet snow with a low ceiling. Lots of freeze/thaw cycles, so the ice creates a need for durability.

I have a "quiver" from which I choose pieces depending on expected conditions. My winter trips are usually shorter, 3-4 days, so I usually have very accurate forecasts at my disposal.

Tops:

–Cap 2 Longsleeve
–Cap 4 Hoody

I usually wear these if conditions will be below 40F

–Fleece vest WS front/100 wt back
–100 wt fleece pullover

I wear one or both of these as layering pieces when on the move in conditions from 25F-0F. The vest in particular is nice as it is effective when layered both over or under my windshirt.

–Houdini windshirt

Always. Most used piece of gear.

–Shell. About to order a Montbell Torrent Flier, 9 oz. Paclite, pitzips. Hope the hood works for me.

I always carry a hardshell in winter; it's not uncommon to have rain and temps just above freezing in my locale.

–Montbell Mirage Parka
–Arcteryx Atom LT Hoody

Haven't used the Montbell yet, hopefully it and the Atom in conjunction will provide me with lots of options.

Bottoms:

–Cap 2 briefs
–Cap 2 tights

Much like the tops, these are pretty much always worn if it's below 40F.

–Powerstretch tights

If it's going to be really cold, I'll use these instead of the Cap 2 tights.

–REI Sahara convertible pants

I wear these year round, they work well to cut wind, they're breathable and durable. I zip off the lower legs when it warms up, allowing my gaiters to keep my calves dry.

–Marmot Precip full-zip shell pants

Again, I always carry shells. These allow some venting and also make it easy when I'm wearing snowshoes or microspikes.

–Arcteryx Atom LT pants

I use these in camp and to supplement my sleeping bag, though the full-zips allow them to be used for layering. I've ner had conditions that cold, and don't want to!

Hey Mike M,

I'm curious. Your regular base system plus MB Alpine Light, how cold will you take that? I bought an MB AL this summer and wil use it during winter activities, but have yet to be in temps colder than low 40s with it.

I'm comfortable into the low 20's and probably even a little lower- that's w/ a base layer/midlayer/windshirt and appropriate head/hand/feet coverings- I run a little on the warmish side

if it's going to be colder yet, I'll throw in the nanopuff as well- I'll be honest if it's too cold, I usually elect not to venture out :)

Awesome, thanks for the info. Looking forward to using the jacket in some cold temps! (If they ever come, I'm in the Bay Area, and after a week of fall weather we're back to wearing tee-shirts.)

Mike, or anyone else for that matter,

How does layering your Micropuff under your MB Alpine Light work for compression of the garments? I think I read in the past you have a MB Exlight. I was wondering if the loft and compression of the Micropuff would be similar to layering the Exlight and Alpine Light the same way?

Thanks!

Nick- yup, both the exlight and nano are relatively thin and the Alpine Light is cut a little roomy, so it works very well for either. That's definitely something you do want to mindful of when combining insulating garments.

MIke

Thanks, Mike.

Planning on using my exlight and Alpine light in conjunction this winter. Was curious how the synth matched up. I get a little compression of the exlight in the sleeves but figure it's not enough to cause a lack of insulating value.

I think you'll have good luck w/ that combo :)

Patagonia Cap 3 upper.
REI polartec lower long underwear
Patagonia R1 (when moving and cold)
FA Serrano insulated jacket when in camp
Patagonia Torrent shell as my hard shell
Patagonia Torrent shell pants.

I think this should be fine for Oregon rain hikes and backpacking, however I haven't tried this combination yet.

my experience is that the thinner the base layer the better (this is the layer that has to move moisture), I have a few Cap 3 pieces and they are relegated to mid-layer duties

You mean something like silk weight caps?

I'm with Mike–you want something thin and light as your first layer regardless of season. I use a short sleeve tee as my first layer year round. I use merino 1 for cooler weather and Arcteryx Motus (similar to cap 1 but quite a bit more breathable) for warmer. You want your base layer to wick and dry quickly.

yup- anything on the thin side, the base layer isn't really about warmth- it's "job" is to move moisture- much easier to do when it's thin, also much is easier to dry when it's thin

when I'm snowshoeing I often am only wearing a silkweight top and a windshirt even into the 20's and very often I'll have the windshirt open to vent out

in the winter it's paramount to stay dry as possible- some of it's means appropriate layers; but a lot of it is technique- starting out a little on the cool side knowing that you're going to warm up, shedding layers before they get soaked, venting w/ your shell, taking hat & gloves on/off, slowing your pace if you're sweating too much (this is a tough one for a lot of us :))

Temp 350 – 400 F Layering Model

BLACK DIAMOND BEANIE (1.62oz)
ICEBREAKER 200 T SHIRT (0.3iclo)
PATAONIA R1 PULL-OVER (0.32iclo)
MONTBELL DOWN VEST (1.45clo)
MONTBELL TACHYON ANORAK PULLOVER WINDSHIRT (0.6iclo)
OR VERSAGLOVES (2.6oz)
DARN TOUGH (1714) 1/4 SOCKS (2.3oz/pr)
MT HARDWEAR CONVERTIBLE PANTS (14oz)

Temp 410 – 570 F Layering Model

BLACK DIAMOND BEANIE (1.62oz)
ICEBREAKER 150 WOOL LG. UNDERWEAR BOTTOMS (0.2iclo)
PATAONIA R1 PULL-OVER (0.32iclo)
MONTBELL TACHYON ANORAK PULLOVER WINDSHIRT (0.6iclo)
OR VERSAGLOVES (2.6oz)
DARN TOUGH (1714) 1/4 SOCKS (2.3oz/pr)
MT HARDWEAR CONVERTIBLE PANTS (14oz)

>>When I'm in a ACTIVE MODE, as in snowshoeing and xc skiing the layering is reduced to 150 weight wool Zip T Neck and wind shirt.
>>When I'm in a SEDENTARY MODE, as in a camp setting the high iclo clothing goes on…… NUNATAK SKAHA SWEATER (4.35iclo)(4.5oz/875fp/2.0oz overfill)& FEATHERED FRIENDS HELIOS PANTS (3.17iclo)(4.9oz/850fp) – (15.68oz)

Today's (29Oct2012) temperature was 36.70 F (Wind Speed if 14mph) when I left the house for a 3.1 mile walk and returned at a temp of 410 F. The Temp 250 – 400 F Layering Model above was themo-neutral (not uncomfortably cold or sweating).

Reviving this thread with a few questions….

Do you ever remove/change your baselayers (top and bottom) during a trip or do you wear them the whole time and only adjust the other layers over them as necessary?

Do you only bring hardshells if you're expecting cold rain or wet snow? If temps are well below freezing it sounds like the hardshell is not necessary for top or bottom?

For those that use insulated pants like the Micropuff, when you're in camp is the DWR good enough to prevent them from getting wet when hanging out in the snow? I'm planning on using them this weekend to supplement my sleep system and was originally thinking about layering rain pants over them in camp to keep them dry, but I get the impression that this isn't necessary. I will have a foam pad to sit on.

Chris,

I never remove my base layer. Swap out insulating and shell pieces as necessary.

I bring a 6 ounce WP/B rain jacket as a hard shell. I use it if the weather decides to be weird and I get wet precipitation. I also use it for wind blocking.

For pants, I've been using a pair of insulated Columbia pants. They're heavy, but really durable and WP/B. I don't have to worry about them getting wet from crawling under my tarp or hanging around camp.

I do not remove my base layer (and seldom remove my pants even to sleep), which is typically a pair of Patagonia running tights or if (relatively) warm, just stretch woven soft-shell pants. On top it's a long sleeve, white, some variant of a dri-fit top.

For the Bottoms, I will layer over teh tights stretch-woven soft-shell pants. On top, after my base layer would be a power stretch hoodie followed by an epic fabric hooded wind shirt or a wild things hooded insulight jacket. my goal is to be cold when starting-out and cool after 10 to 15 minutes of activity.

Depending on how cold and other conditions I follow-up with a pata micro puff pullover, wild things belay jacket or a FF hooded volant. Bottoms are OR neoplume pants. My last layer can fit over all my lower layers combined and are meant for when stopped.

I consider all of my layers with the exception of my last top layer as part of my sleep system.

I almost never bring hard-shell pants and seldom bring a hard-shell top. Most of my mid/outer layers are epic shelled and that gives me pretty good protection towards the higher end of water resistance.