Two synergystic technologies coming together?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

The new water resisting treatmenst for down, Dri Down and Down Tek, are great news for backpackers.

Now if we can EVER see "Never Wet" DWR hit the store shelves – or the outdoor clothing manufacturers – we could see down garmnents that would nearly eliminate the need for bivy sacks and hardshell in cold, wet conditions.

Even synthetic insulated garments could use "Never Wet". Is there something unsafe in the chemicals of "Never Wet" that keeps it off the market?

[Jim Colten]

Dri Down and Down Tek could be interesting if successfully applied to high fill power down … I haven't yet seen news beyond heavier downs.

"Never Wet" … never is a VERY high standard … sometimes the "n" gets lost in translation from the lab to the field. We'll see.

I'm not from Missouri but I can still wait for "show me"

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

LL Bean has their ultralight jacket with 850 FP drydown, it was reviewed favorably in Backpacker Magazine.

Brooks Range has the Mojave jacket 800+ FP
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=68691

[Bob Bankhead]

Technological advances are great news and can make our lives much easier and/or our packs lighter.

However, be sure you have the skills to protect yourself "the old fashioned way" (aka Plan B) if your techno-gear should fail in the field – its fault; your fault; nature's fault.

Knowledge weighs nothing; neither does common sense. Both can be costly and time-consuming to acquire, but are worth the trouble if you go in harm's way

.

[Mark Verber]

> Dri Down and Down Tek could be interesting if successfully applied to
> high fill power down … I haven't yet seen news beyond heavier downs.

Patagonia claims to have a treatment which results in 1000 fill?!

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/patagonia-introduces-encapsil-down-holds-equity-stake-in-aeonclad-coatings-174205011.html

–mark

[Stephen M]

the more companies offering these type of technologies the better.

[Anthony Weston]

zpacks is also using water resistant down

[Richard Nisley]

My bet is on the Patagonia / Aeonclad's technology to MOST improve down's moisture handling characteristics. Ageonclad uses Plasma Enhanced Chemical Vapor Depositions (PECVD) which provides for a solvent less, pin-hole free, single-step encapsulation process in which the encapsulating or coating material may be modified depending on the process, itself.

In contrast, the other vendors apply a down DWR by misting the down with a hydrophobic polymer. This approach works great for demos of down floating in beakers of water, but the down will theoretically not have the lowest possible moisture regain value because their coatings are not pin-hole free.

I originally discussed this topic in the “Testing Waterproof Down” thread and James Marco's comments added to the discussion of testing with water in the vapor state as opposed to the liquid state:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=69225&skip_to_post=592100

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Thanks Richard for the update on a better means of deposition of a DWR for down. I agree that Patagonia's method permits a better method on a molecular basis as opposed to a vapor type spray.

Bob,
Yer preachin' to the choir. I'm a former Nordic ski patroller and Army ROTC cadet winter survival instructor. As well I'm currently an alpine ski patroller with Avalanche 1 and Mountain Travel and Rescue 1 certifications and am going for my MTR instructorship which takes another 2 years to complete.
That enuf knowledge fer ya?

How about a professional trail builder for the Snow Creek section of the PCT in 1980? (i.e. we built the ORIGINAL trail from scratch,)

[Stephen M]

From what Richard says this will be the better of the existing products, lets hope Patagonia licence it to companies that build down trousers and sleeping bags or expand in to those fields.

[Tony Wong]

Richard,

Great to see you on the forum.

Been a while since I have seen you.

As always, your wisdom is always appreciated.

Hope you can make the January BPL get together at Henry Coe State Park.

-Tony

[Richard Nisley]

Tony,

Thanks for the note. I am going to try and make the January trip.

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

so first we all grew to love sil-nlyon, making nylon stronger and waterproof, now we get sil-down doing the same for down ;-)

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