New bag or quilt

Enlightened Equipment. Great quilts.

Welcome to the adventure!

First off, a bag that is rated at 30*, without any further spec, is going to leave you cold in the winter. With a few exceptions, the temp rating is usually optimistic, and could be considered more of a survival temp, not a comfort temp, and yes there's a huge difference. Western Mountaineering is one company known for rating their bags accurately, so a 20* bag is actually comfy at 20*.

I grew up in NE Ohio, and can tell you that a 30* bag, whether that's 30* rating or 30* comfort, will not cut it for winter in your area. You want 10* or 15* comfort rating. You'll see that REI has the "EN Comfort" ratings listed on most bags. That's the rating you want to go by.

You can use insulating layers to extend a bags rating, but for most people, especially someone new, you'll want to use those as insurance for exceptional conditions, not as something that you're relying on.

Do not overlook your ground insulation, especially for winter camping. In your area, you'll want sleeping pads that add up to an R-Value of 4 or 5, preferrably 5. This is critical and neglecting this is why I went into stage 2 hypothermia on a winter campout in boy scouts. Without the proper ground insulation for winter, or even late fall/early spring, you're like a fish in the market display case.

I can't help with quilts, but others can.

Above all, the first time you winter camp, take it easy. Camp near your car, or even in your back yard, and be ready and prepared to bail on the trip. Winter camping in your area is no joke and should not be taken lightly.

Be prepared for the elements, so that you can have fun and tell us about it later.

I just wanted to say that the 52" example is the width of the quilt and since it does not go all the way around u, is probably more like ai 62" diameter bag. I hav

Kier thanks for all the info, but i have 2 questions for you. One is what is R-value? The other is if I grab a 15* bag will it be usable in the summer or will it be to hot and ill have to by another? The reason i was thinking 30 or 20* was then i could just use it all year around just adjust what i have under it? I am guessing from your statement that you think that is dangerous and after reading your post i would agree with you i guess i just didn't think it through, but now im curious if a 15* will be ok for summer or will i need 2 bags?
Thanks Brad i did not know that and makes me feel better about quilt sizes

Happy to help

R-Value is an insulation rating. There's all sorts of math behind it, but essentially, the higher the number, the better it insulates you. For sleeping on snow, depending on how warm of a sleeper you are, you want between 4 and 6 (as I understand it and have practiced). REI, Backcountry.com, and others always list the R-Value in the specs for a sleeping pad.

For the sleeping bag, yes, those of us without the $$$ to buy multiple bags just buy one for the coldest conditions expected and then just unzip it in warmer weather. In the mild seasons you can use it as a blanket. In the hottest weather there, you might not need it at all.

So the quilt vs. bag thing is personal I suppose. I'd advise you however to try one out (aka buy a used one off this forum and re-sell it if it doesn't work out (which you can only do if you're a member, word of warning)). I bought a nice one without trying them and I've kind of had nothing but problems when it's really cold out because I don't sleep on my back only all night, I think they're wonderful when it's hot out.

There is no magic bag that will keep you comfortable at at 30F and also keep you warm at 0f. Sorry, but despite what ever else you have heard, it isn't going to happen. A 0f bag, is really needed for cold weather in PA. In summer, you will be way too hot in a 0f bag. You kick it off, and open yourself up to bugs. I live in the Finger Lakes region of NY, rather close to you. I have two bags: 40f and 0f. If I am headed into the high peaks, I will take both bags.

Idealy, you would want a bag for every 20F difference in temp you plan on being out in. 40, 20, 0, -20. As others have said, use the higher EN rating for a good bag, WM, Feathered Friends, etc. Quilts are not as warm, especially if you toss and turn a lot. But if you sleep fairly still, they can be good provided you have a good pad under you. They don't work that well for me, I wake up with one or both feet sticking out and cold. I cannot say how, but there is a big difference for me.

Anyway, the EN system includes a base layer. Light pants, shirt and socks are included in the rating. So, for extra clothing, you need to plan on more than a single layer. I use my 40F bag with a down sweater, two layers of long johns and long, thick wool socks to get the extension to ~20-25f. This is heavier than simply purchasing the correct 20f bag, but it saves the extra $400 of purchasing another bag. In winter, I need the long johns, anyway. So, it works for me. The difference is about a pound. I don't usually worry about it, though. My base weight is between 9-11 pounds in good weather, ~15-18 in cold weather…I don't go out in the winter anymore, though…dibetes problems (circulation in my feet.) I can afford the extra pound 3-5 times per year.

With an intimate partner, you can easily warm up a pair of zip together mummy bags by about 10f. A couple in a 40f bag will take them down to 30f.

A tent will add some warmth and so will a warm sleeping pad (around R5.) But, you can never plan on taking a bag designed for 30F, 30F degrees BELOW its rated temp.
If the girth is narrow, you will compress the down, causing it to loose heat. You hit a point of diminishing returns. You win with the clothing, loose with the bag…

Allow at least a 4" difference in girth and bag size. If you meassure 61", then a 64" bag will be a little tight after adding any cloths. 65" would be better. If you are planning to extend the range of the bag, you might want another few inches.

20 pounds is not a problem. I can carry both my bags in 18 pounds.

Katabatic wide quilts are the best bags that I have used (WM, Montbell, MH). They are very conservatively rated, have an ingenious strap design, and the sewing is impeccable. I have a Palisade and a Sawatch. I was skeptical of using a quilt, but these have converted me.

A 0f bag, is really needed for cold weather in PA.
That depends on what you define as a 0F bag. Maybe an REI 0F bag, which is going to have an EN comfort of 15ish. But a Western Mountaineering or Feathered Friends 10* or 15* should do fine in most situations. The average winter low in the Allegheny region is in the teens. Be smart, pay attention to the weather, and (for now at least) avoid the major cold fronts that bring sub zero temps.

Let's keep in mind that the OP is new to backpacking in general, and especially to winter camping. No need to drop $2000 on new bags. Most people I've spoken with keep one or two bags. I wouldn't drop the cash on a dedicated winter bag till you've experienced the briskness that comes with waking up at 6AM in 15 degree weather – it ain't for everyone :)

I'd advise you however to try one out (aka buy a used one off this forum and re-sell it if it doesn't work out (which you can only do if you're a member, word of warning))
Sage advice indeed…

So Tim at EE has a quilt made of cuben fiber, which is not breathable and is water proof. Will this act like a vpl layer and if so does that mean that a 20* quilt made of CF will actually keep u warmer? I could be thinking way wrong here which is why i am throwing it out to you guys. Oh and how is the durability of cf for down bags and quilt?

I have both a Katabatic Sawatch 15 degree and a Enlightened Equipment Epiphany
zero degree quilt.

There are advantages to both and both are great quilts.

The cubin quilt warms up fastest; it's a vapor barrier.
You can pile on the insulated clothes in the Katabatic, in the Epiphany it's different.

The epiphany is lighter by about 5 oz and is waterproof.

In the Epiphany, you can't wear an insulated pants inside without waking up soaking in sweat. I wear a insulated jacket all the time but just leave the quilt loose about me and that works fine and it cuts out drafts so I can sleep on my side.

I have a zero degree Epiphany quilt but the coldest I intend to use it is about 15 degrees.
Why? Remember I can't wear insulated clothes in the Epiphany and cinch it up.
What if the temperature drops 20 degrees colder then expected. I'm still OK with a zero degree bag. I might have to peel off my insulated jacket (ironically to get warmer) and cinch up the quilt.

in short the Epiphany weighs less, is not as durable and is harder to regulate temperature unless you have a warmer bag than you need, at least that is my experience.

The Katabatic will last longer.
The cubin needs to be gently stuffed in a bigger stuff sack or the cubin will need to be patched occasionally with duck tape.

All that said, I do grab the cubin quilt more often as my goto bag but it takes some getting used to.

Anthony i am curious why you grab the cubin quilt more often? Just curious of your reasons.

I also have a dog that will be going on some trips so if my dog tramps on the epiphany bag and it being CF will she easily put a hole in it?

i would suggest trying a quilt out if possible before buying … some people like em, others dont … plenty of people have moved back and forth here one way or another

the other thing to consider is that the number of people who use quilts in a full blown winter scenario is a bit rarer as well

if i had to get one "do it all" bag … personally id get a 20F sleeping bag … you can add a 40F quilt later to take it down to 0F and use the quilt in the summer where it may make more sense

there is no "right" answer

No idea what kind of price range you're looking at, but for the cost of an Epiphany you could easily get a summer and winter bag, which will serve you better than a single bag.

I made some sleeping bag choices recently, and ended up with an EE Revelation X for winter and a Golite 1+ season bag for summer. The combined cost was about $340, and I will be comfortable in summer and winter. The fact that my winter bag is a quilt will also serve well in shoulder seasons, because I can drape it loosely.

It also depends what kind of shelter you plan on using. I'm going to try out a bivy sack relatively soon, so I'll get an extra 5-10 degrees of insulation off the bat.

I could be wrong but Yes, your .33 cubin bag will not last long with a dog.
I injured mine just by stuffing it in too small of a stuff sack and later had to duck tape it.