How the he$$%#% do you manage your lanyard kit

[Brian Johns]

I agree. But these are all small items and essential items for the most part. For that reason, I find the lanyard useful, if for no other reason, than to keep these items easy to find/grab. I use a binder to take the SAK off because it actually gets used. The photon, fire steel, whistle, and – mostly – the compass, stay on the chord as a way to keep one and all from getting lost. I like the lanyard, but I have no reason to wear it. In modern, UL packs, though, the lack of pockets makes the string useful. Definitely not an EDC item, there are bug out forums for that.

[Justin Baker]

I carry around a neck knife and a firesteel around my neck all day. I forget it's there. If I have a way to build a shelter and start a fire, I will be just fine. A folding knife can break on you in the bloodiest way possible if you tried to use it to build a shelter (batoning). Keeping some stuff in your packs/on your belts works great too, but 90% of the time I am wearing light shorts.
If you actually walk across swift, freezing cold rivers without pulling out a few essentials and putting them on your body, then you should really consider what kind of situation you are going to be in if you fall under and that pack goes downstream.

[Shane Stewart]

It seems most folks are justifying this necklace thing for instances when you're separated from you pack and can't find it. So I ask, how often are you folks in this situation? I've yet to have this issue.

Like someone said above, if we plan for everything, we're back to huge packs. Take a few step back and enjoy walking just for the sake of walking, not taking doomsday-esque preparations on the off chance the worst of the worst happens.

[Roger Caffin]

> "Hard to argue w/ Roger"
> well I guess I'll have to quit carrying mine then
Well, ask yourself how often you have really needed it. 'Separated from pack': how often does that happen? Seriously.

Fundamentally, there is little or no difference between wearing an emergency necklace and carrying an axe 'because you might need it'.

Cheers

[Nick Brown]

The items described on the lanyard or other carry options are items nearly all of us carry. They just aren't in the pack. They are on the person. These aren't extras like a spare bear can on a lanyard. I still count mine as base weight if your scale is in a tissy over it.

Why be so dismissive? If you don't agree don't post in this thread.

[Bob Gross]

"These aren't extras like a spare bear can on a lanyard."

That, I would like to see.

–B.G.–

[David Adair]

What exactly is it that is so disturbing about people carrying a few things on their person? Especially when its stuff they would be carrying anyway? So if its in your pack its OK but if its on your person you must be some kind of survivalist nut?

>Well, ask yourself how often you have really needed it. 'Separated from pack': how often does >that happen? Seriously.

Based on past experience I could carry my bear spray in my pack too… but I don't

[Michael Cheifetz]

Roger – obviously there is some merit in what you are saying. I assume like most people here you actually DO CARRY most of these items (whistle, small LED light, small knife etc) and what you are saying is that you basically never separate from your pack.
i have similar experiences – but I guess the whole point is when things go bad…which fortunately for me they havent…..but I can imagine instances where it could have happened – instances like when I left my bag somewhere to slackpack up to a munro that ended up being icy and i slipped a few times..could have ended badly. now you could argue that i should take it out of my backpack and into the peaksack or whatnot – but that is the whole point of being on your body – you dont need to think.
Or when you go to get water and wander too far away and slip etc

whether on your neck, in pocket or in bag – i guess the main thing is to make sure its on you when you need it….
maybe the best thing is to duct tape the satellite phone to my inner thigh ;)

M

[John Donewar]

Mike,

My answer is that I don't.

This sternum strap pocket, yes some of us use them, houses my camera and cell phone.

My very small folding knife is part of my Leatherman Micra that rides in my left side pants pocket. My flat emergency whistle and I D "dog tag" are worn on a "string" lanyard around my neck inside of my shirt. I have often thought of adding a breakaway "link" to this lanyard but for now I just keep it inside of my shirt. I've had no issues with it being uncomfortable.

My small LED light hangs on the shock cord of my pack.

Look midway up the pack directly behind the blue stuff sack in the large side pocket that houses my tent. I carry my headlight in the same manner looped around the shock cord and hanging inside the main mesh pocket.

I keep my right side pocket of my pants available for snacks and walking food.

All of my other $&!+ goes in my one bag (the pack). ;-)

Party On,

Newton

[Ryan Smith]

"Well gee if Roger says so, I guess I'll have to quit carrying mine too.
edited to add: pffft"

But David, if you quit carrying your power puff girls watch, whatever will you do?

edited to add: pffft

Ryan

[Dale Wambaugh]

Shane asked, "It seems most folks are justifying this necklace thing for instances when you're separated from you pack and can't find it. So I ask, how often are you folks in this situation? I've yet to have this issue. "

Essentials are the one break with the ultralight principle of taking only what you will use. It needs to be practiced in moderation and can life saving. Too many times I have read gear lists that skimped on essentials to get down to some arbitrary low weight, something Andrew Skura calls "stupid light."

Essentials are carried for emergency situations and if you hike smart, you may never need them. If you read accounts of lost hikers, the lack of essentials and basic skills stand out. Anyone who ventures out should know the basics of navigation, fire making and improvising shelter and have the tools to use those skills. That doesn't mean you need to haul ten pounds of stuff to get the job done.

Hikers do lose their gear in stream crossings and falls. Much more often, they get separated from a group and the other members are carrying the shelters and other critical gear. Many times I have read accounts of what I call "Gilligan hikes," where the victims were planning on a short stroll in the woods found themselves in a series of compounding calamities, and of course empty handed and unprepared.

To say "it won't happen to me" is exactly the mindset that gets experienced hikers in trouble. Overconfidence gets more "experts" in trouble than any other factor. Leaving yourself without basic tools and supplies is just asking for it.

Leaving yourself under-equipped in the name of UL is taking the easy way out. It takes some research and thought to find light and effective essentials that can be life saving. You do need to apply the same UL principles that you would in choosing any other gear, looking for high performance for the weight, multiple uses, etc. from there it is a decision of what items should be carried on your person and how to carry them, which I thought was the purpose of this thread.

[Dena Kelley]

I found I'm just not a fan of hanging things around my neck, mostly because it rubs and just irritates me. I carry my PSK gear in the cargo pocket of my pants. I don't carry duplicates in my pack, however. I've simply migrated those items from my "dinky stuff" bag into a pocket. You can be separated from your pack. It's good to have certain items on your person, IMO. Other people may see it differently, and that's fine too.

[Pete Staehling]

I figure the lanyard is far from necessary when hiking, but I am already in the habit of wearing a dog tag and car key on a chain around my neck when trail running (no pockets). When bicycle touring or backpacking I add an eGear PICO zipper pull light (the only light I typically have along). At 0.2 ounces it is hardly noticeable, but always handy.

[Pete Staehling]

"Based on past experience I could carry my bear spray in my pack too… but I don't"

I don't either. I leave that home :)

[David Adair]

Thanks! I enjoy you all! It can be a bit difficult to fing somebody willing to even feign an interest in whatcha got in yer pocket while out backpacking.(see wife rolling eyes)Let alone willing to argue about it.

So anyway Roger said:

"Easy. I don't carry one. Never have, and never needed one in 40+ years of walking.
The bushcrafty types and the emergency survival types are just playing games."

As much as I respect Roger's opinion, experience and willingness to be blunt, the rest of us weren't necessarily born just yesterday either. His opinion is welcome and will be considered along with those of a multitude of other people whose opinions I respect. So in the scheme of things Roger's opinion is just that, Roger's opinion. If I thought Roger's opinion was the gospel you would find me running around all winter in nothing but a thong and funny tights.

[Jen Churchward]

I'm not a fan of things around my neck or in my pockets so I use one of these: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lowe-alpine-mountain-safe-wallet~p~4472c/ It holds all the stuff I need to access regularly (sanitizer, lip balm etc.), plus my emergency gear. It's not ultralight, but it's light enough. I keep it in the top pocket of my pack when I'm wearing it, and sling it over my shoulder if I have to take the pack off and walk away from it for any reason. Contents includes a mini knife, whistle, signal mirror, LED light and fire starting gear. I figure I'm going to be carrying it anyway, so I may as well keep it in a single place where I can access it easily.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Michael

> I assume like most people here you actually DO CARRY most of these items (whistle,
> small LED light, small knife etc)

Whistle: never carried one, and haven't seen many people ever carrying one here in Oz. Yet another gimmick imho.

Mirror: never carried one either. Same comments.

Small LED light: for sure, safely stowed in my pack where it won't get lost in the daytime.

Pocket knife: a habit which is hard to break, but these days I don't carry one. I do carry a sharp (small) Victorinox kitchen knife in with the REST of our cutlery (mainly spoons): it gets used for cutting bread, cheese, sausage, etc.

Compass: that hangs around my neck at ALL times. But it gets used all the time too.

Watch: in pocket, clipped to trousers. Safer there by far than on my wrist.

First aid kit: inside pack, usually some way down as it almost never gets touched.

Fire lighting stuff: inside cooking pot where it is safe and can't get lost. That's where it is needed anyhow. (It's the same Bic lighter which has lasted me for >6 years now.)

Getting separated from my pack: only happens by intent. We left our packs in saddles in Europe to climb nearby peaks a few times. What did we take up with us? Camera, passports, credit cards.

> wander too far away and slip etc
Given a choice of the tiny things on a necklace or having a walking partner, guess which one I would go for? OK, that leaves out the solo walkers. But that is MY idea of a safety precaution: having a walking partner. MY choice, not everyone else's.

HTH
Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

David wrote:

> Roger's opinion is just that, Roger's opinion.
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
Provided free of charge, and you know what they say about that.

> running around all winter in nothing but a thong and funny tights.
Hey – I had proper underpants on under the Lycra, AND it was sunny.

Cheers

[Michael Cheifetz]

Rog,

First – for my money you look darn sexy in that leotard;)

Re your gear choices – interesting, i wonder how you evolved towards this point…would you, if you were teaching newcomers (eg boy scouts etc) about solo hiking actually advocate they dont take a whistle/knife/mirror (putting aside for a moment the issue of where they carry it)…?

No doubt if I had to choose I would choose a hiking partner for safety – but alas that isnt always the case is it?

compass/wristwatch – i feel pretty good about the Gshok – not concerned it will come off my hand. i also have a REAL compass in the pack

knife – i carry mine in the pant pocket (sometimes a leatherman and others a mini swiss) it is thus accessible AND makes me feel safer vis a vis bad people)

M

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Michael

Leotards … fortunately I live in a different country, far, far away … :-)

> i wonder how you evolved towards this point
This is actually a very important question.
My answer, for myself, has two parts.

First, Both Sue and I started to feel that we needed to lighten our packs a bit if we were going to keep enjoying walking in the mountains. Nothing to do with our age of course … :-) This happened some years before I became involved with BPL, but BPL managed to really crystalise the concepts for us.
Second, triggered in part by the above, was the realisation that a lot of what I was carrying was only there because of conventional thinking, while in practice I never used or needed any of it.

For example, at one stage I had a first aid kit which could almost let me perform open heart surgery, although your survival might be open to question. Then I realised that most of the prescription items were several years out of date and (of course) completely untouched. I was carting around lots of 'just-in-case' weight.

A hard-nosed analysis of my pack showed that many 'just-in-case' items were really quite useless. So I stopped carrying them. That was many years ago, and I have never regretted the decision.

> would you, if you were teaching newcomers (eg boy scouts etc) about solo hiking
> actually advocate they dont take a whistle/knife/mirror
I would not teach novices about solo walking. For me, the benefits of having a walking partner is a huge increase in safety. I don't mind if someone wants to go solo, but that is THEIR decision.

Edit while typing: solo walking on popular tracks where there may be others passing by is vastly different from our normal off-track extended walking in Australian wilderness areas, where we never meet anyone. My comments above relate mainly to our off-track stuff. YMMV.

Watch/altimeter: yes, of course I carry one. It helps us navigate (altitude and by the sun) and tells us how much longer we have to go before lunchtime :-) I stopped wearing it on my wrist for two reasons:
The glass got bashed up when we were scrambling around the cliffs
The compression from the strap blocked blood flow in cold weather, especially when ski-touring, making that hand really cold.

> safer vis a vis bad people
OK, contentious subject. Frankly, we feel safer in the mountains than in the city.

(end of sermon)
Cheers

[John Donewar]

Michael,

Newcomers and scouts should never be taught to not carry the hiking essentials necessary for a safe and comfortable trek.

"…how you evolved towards this point…"

There is your answer, we evolved to this point through years of hiking experience. That is how we arrived at our gear choices. After every trip I look at what I did not use or need and make an educated and "experienced" choice as to whether or not to carry that piece of gear the next time I hike.

I know that I didn't mention it, but the black plastic "end" on the zipper pull of my sternum strap pocket has been replaced with a "fob" type button compass that has a rotatable degree ring bezel. It's not a GPS but it serves my purpose and there is one on my EDC kit also.

"…makes me feel safer vis a vis bad people…"

Trekking poles with carbide tips and readily available bear spray can be used for dual purposes. ;-)

"… I would choose a hiking partner for safety…"

One is none, two is one and so on. Two of something can be good and one of another may be too much. Experience is the best teacher after learning the basics. Be prepared but not overloaded.

BTW In that avatar picture, Roger does look like a young Mick Jagger. LOL

Party On,

Newton

[Phillip Asby]

Interesting discussion. I am new to backpacking but not to EDC and related concepts -within reason that is. I don't have a piece of property in the backwoods where I can bug out for a week or month along with a bunker filled with non perishables on said property – but having lived through a few hurricanes I'm better prepared than most to bug in for a period of time – I'm not overly worried about zombies but I do have a statistically significant chance of several types of natural disaster striking.

Anywho I found this site and have used it to really learn and challenge what I thought I knew about what I needed. Light is appealing for several reasons – some of it starting to backpack in my mid 40s… despite being in the best shape I've been in a decade let's be honest – I still want to be able to actually cover some distance and not be in traction. And starting with my 10yo son who has obvious limits on his load meaning I have to carry a bit more.

However, it does somewhat go against the two is one, one is none mindset of EDC/preparedness. They are differentiated obviously by different circumstances driving those needs and different factors in the decision matrix. But still it is a paradigm shift. I carry on my person or in my briefcase two knives and two flashlights every day (and I'm a minimalist by EDC standards).

So philosophically there is always a seeming tension between having what you need for likely situations, and not having extra things that weigh you down. A secondary question I suppose is how do you carry that pared down kit? Even for EDC I've never been a fan of lanyards – but I work in a white collar setting where it just isn't comfortable under a dress shirt and tie. I do see the value in hiking/camping of keeping stuff accessible and being able to hang it up in an organized fashion. I also can see circumstances where having a minimal kit with you if you are separated from you pack would be helpful. If you are carrying it already… why not I suppose.

I will say that as a newbie – I am likely to prepare for more contingencies than some others simply as I am aware that I don't have hundreds or thousands of miles under my belt – so despite my best efforts what may be an insignificant risk to some here may be a slightly bigger risk for me. My FAK continues to evolve but I likely carry a few more supplies – all of which I can use as a side note, I don't have anything exotic – than some others. Some of that is hiking with my son as well and preparing for contingencies he may have that I would not prepare for on my own.

[John Donewar]

Phillip,

Welcome, glad to have you on the forum.

"However, it does somewhat go against the two is one, one is none mindset of EDC/preparedness".

That comment in my post regarding "one is none….." was in respect to hiking with a partner for safety reasons. That being said carrying backups of certain pieces of gear in EDC or on a hike is not "wrong". Wrong would be carrying too many and too heavy backups.

e.g.

No one needs to carry a flint and steel, bow drill, waterproof matches, lighter, fresnel lens, magnifying glass, potassium permanganate and glycerin, 9 volt battery and steel wool, a magnesium block, ferrocerium rod & striker and a Spark-Lite Firestarter with them everwhere all the time. Whew! ;-)

I carry some backups in EDC and hiking. But I choose the lightest, most dependable and affordable that suits my purpose.

I also live in "hurricane alley" and keep a bug out bag in both vehicles and have an EDC bag that travels with me to and from work.

I'm paring down my FAK. I used the backing paper from bumper stickers to "store" several pieces of Leukotape instead of carrying the roll. In it I keep nsaids, anti-diarrheals, antihistamines, anti-biotic ointment, band-aids and alcohol wipes.

The alcohol wipes burn really well BTW. LOL

I keep a few band-aids in my wallet at all times. In a white shirt and tie enviorment a Witz Sportcase…

…and its dimensions are 2.7” wide x 4.3” high x 1.3” thick. This could easily fit in an inside pocket of a sport coat, shirt pocket or where your wallet usually rides if you remove the lanyard, split ring and biner. With a little imagination and ingenuity it could house a pretty well supplied EDC FAK. YMMV

FYI my wallet usally rides in a side cargo pocket. I hate sitting on that leather "lump" full of plastic.

Party On,

Newton

[Larry De La Briandais]

"The bushcrafty types and the emergency survival types are just playing games."

Those whose lives were saved because they learned something from those "bushcrafty types' would probably strongly disagree.

No one ever plans to get lost and separated from ones equipment. But it happens. A few items carried in ones pockets, or on a lanyard, (the ability to make fire the most important) will go a long way.

[Phillip Asby]

Newton – Great suggestion and I happen to have two of those Witz cases left over from our Disney trip!

I have a get home bag in my car – which has been the repository of a few items I bought before discovering this forum which I no longer use camping like one of the too heavy fleeces I got awhile back. It will keep me warm if I can't drive home and need to hoof it. Ditto for the worn in shoes that I don't use on the trail but are comfortable and good for 20 miles or so at this point at least.

EDC, preparedness, backpacking … they all share something in common which is prepare for your needs and circumstances (aka hike your own hike) based on what works for you, and your skill set. I like the fire starting example – I feel pretty covered with a mini Bic, waterproof matches and a firesteel. Heck that might be too much but making fire is pretty well at the top of most of our lists of things you don't want to leave to chance – and none of it weighs a lot. The thing with gear I think is that there are an awful lot of rabbit holes you can go down – when barring safety what we all really want is to be outside…

I know I carry more lighting than some, and more blade than some. For the time being I'm OK with that but who knows after a few longer distance trips… !

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