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backpacking food

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PostedAug 20, 2014 at 11:48 am

Just to clarify something Roger just posted, coconut oil has zero cholesterol of any kind, but due to the type of lipids in it, it can increase the body's production of bad cholesterol according to some sources. I'd believe it too, any lipid that is solid at room temperature tends to do that. No plant product has any cholesterol as that specific set of fats is only produced in the livers of animals.
I do use coconut oil for one thing tho, it makes a decent hand moisturizer! Wouldn't want to use it for that purpose while camping tho, it would likely attracts insects, marmots and bears…

David Dietrich BPL Member
PostedAug 23, 2014 at 7:19 am

I also believe in oil. In "The Ultimate Hiker's Guide", Skurka points out that oil is the most calorie dense (and space efficient) food you can pack. He eats mostly chocolate. I like to use nuts, seeds, protein powder, and coconut oil. They mix very well in a cup to make a nice, calorie-dense sauce. I woundn't waste space with fruit or carbs.

David Dietrich BPL Member
PostedAug 23, 2014 at 10:19 am

I am going to pitch in here against olive oil and (I would add) long-chain, unsaturated oils in general. These are more difficult to digest because they must be broken down before passing through the wall of the small intestine. By contrast, short- and medium-chain fatty acids pass straight to your bloodstream. To get an idea of what an impact this makes, here's a snip from Wikipedia:

"Short- and medium-chain fatty acids are absorbed directly into the blood via intestine capillaries and travel through the portal vein just as other absorbed nutrients do. However, long-chain fatty acids are not directly released into the intestinal capillaries. Instead they are absorbed into the fatty walls of the intestine villi and reassembled again into triglycerides. The triglycerides are coated with cholesterol and protein (protein coat) into a compound called a chylomicron." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid).

On top of this, fatty-acids in general are superior to other metabolic fuels because of their ATP (energy) density and because they are preferred by critical muscles like the heart and skeletal muscles:

"Fatty acids are important sources of fuel because, when metabolized, they yield large quantities of ATP. Many cell types can use either glucose or fatty acids for this purpose. In particular, heart and skeletal muscle prefer fatty acids." (Ibid.)

Now that we can assume short- and medium-chain fatty acids are the ideal energy source for us (hiking or not, imo), where do we get them?

"Short-chain fatty acids have four to six carbon atoms. These fats are always saturated. Four-carbon butyric acid is found mostly in butterfat from cows, and six-carbon capric acid is found mostly in butterfat from goats. These fatty acids have antimicrobial properties-that is, they protect us from viruses, yeasts and pathogenic bacteria in the gut. They do not need to be acted on by the bile salts but are directly absorbed for quick energy." (articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/08/21/saturated-fat2.aspx)

"Medium-chain fatty acids have eight to twelve carbon atoms and are found mostly in butterfat and the tropical oils. Like the short-chain fatty acids, these fats have antimicrobial properties; are absorbed directly for quick energy; and contribute to the health of the immune system." (Ibid.)

A problem with olive oil (like most vegetable oils) is that its main fatty acid is a long chain fatty acid which must therefore go through a comparatively long, energy intensive process of decomposition and recomposition to provide energy in human metabolism.

Basically the only two plant-based oils with significant amounts of MCFA's or SCFA's are palm *kernel* oil and coconut oil. As for animal sources, butter is the star player since fats such as lard and tallow aren't readily available now, but it is worth noting that beef pemmican (which is mostly beef tallow) was a prized staple among the American frontiersmen. It's not particularly easy to acquire now, but it's an excellent trail food.

Another factor to consider is the saturation of fatty acids. Saturated fats have no double bonds between carbon atoms, so they are "saturated" with hydrogen. This makes them more calorie-dense than mono- or poly-unsaturated fats.

In addition, polyunsaturated fats are more prone to rancidity both in the air and in the human gut and blood where oxygen is also present due to respiration. Here's a concise explanation:

"Unsaturation means that some hydrogen atoms have been removed, and this opens the structure of the molecule in a way that makes it susceptible to attack by free radicals. … When the oils are stored in our tissues, they are much warmer, and more directly exposed to oxygen, than they would be in the seeds, and so their tendency to oxidize is very great. These oxidative processes can damage enzymes and other parts of cells, and especially their ability to produce energy." (coconutoil.com/ray_peat_unsaturated_oils/)

Next, there is the problem of enzymes.

"To defend the seeds from the animals that would eat them, the oils block the digestive enzymes in the animals’ stomachs." (ibid.)

Besides being typically associated with enzyme inhibitors, unsaturated oils require additional enzymes in order to break the double bonds that distinguish them from saturated fats.

"β-Oxidation of unsaturated fatty acids poses a problem since the location of a cis bond can prevent the formation of a trans-Δ2 bond. These situations are handled by an additional two enzymes, Enoyl CoA isomerase or 2,4 Dienoyl CoA reductase." (Wikipedia, "Fatty Acid Metabolism").

beta-oxidation is the process by which we get energy from fatty acids, and the "cis" bond is the chemical structure which distinguishes unsaturated from saturated fats.

Having said all that, we cannot help wondering what the foods lowest in unsaturated and highest in saturated fats are. Fortunately, there are lists for this sort of thing. In one following, "PUFA" means "Poly-Unsaturated Fatty Acid" and "SAFA" stands-for "SAturated Fatty Acid":

Butter (4% PUFA, 50% SAFA)
Ghee (4% PUFA, 48% SAFA, 2% cholesterol)
Cocoa Butter (3% PUFA, 60% SAFA)
Coconut oil (2-3% PUFA, 92% SAFA, 0% cholesterol)
Palm kernel oil (2% PUFA, 82% SAFA)

(livefreelivenatural.com/best-versus-worst-oils-cook/)

As a final note: I always cringe when I see people posting about eating starchy carbs and/or sugary fruits with their fats. This is a recipe for prolonged, energy-sapping digestive malease.

"Dietary carbohydrates (sugar) stimulate the release of insulin which inhibits the breakdown of lipids (fats and oils) for energy and directs them towards metabolic pathways for storage as FAT." (http://newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/mole00/mole00423.htm)

Unless you are willing to suck down melted butter or coconut oil by the quart (hint: don't), you *will* need to dilute your fatty acid goodness with *something*. I recommend protein powders (e.g., pea, rice, or hemp), lecithin powder (preferably sunflower), and possibly some low-carb nut or seed meal/flour (e.g., coconut flour, almond flour, flax meal, etc.) and, if you feel adventurous, low-carb green "superfood" powders (e.g., chlorella, spirulina, wheat grass, and derivative blends thereof).

Keep in mind that it's easy to overdo nuts and seeds. These have high concentrations of unsaturated, long-chain fatty acids which will clog your metabolism and sap your strength. However, they *are* a step up from high-starch fillers like oatmeal, peanuts (which are legumes, not genuine nuts), and potatoes which completely lay waste to your insulin pathways and leave your precious oils sitting in your gut and fat tissue unused.

PostedAug 23, 2014 at 11:28 am

"I woundn't waste space with fruit or carbs."

A certain amount of carbs is necessary to support the metabolism of fat. If you don't get it from dietary sources, the liver will convert protein to glucose from either dietary protein or muscle. A good rule of thumb is to have at least 30% of your dietary calories supplied by carbs, although the percentage will vary with the intensity of your exercise.

PostedAug 24, 2014 at 6:00 am

The diet discussion reminds me of an episode of "This American Life" about modern jackass.

I am all in on olive oil.

PostedAug 24, 2014 at 6:46 am

David –

"Skurka points out that oil is the most calorie dense (and space efficient) food you can pack. He eats mostly chocolate."

Oh, please …

"On top of this, fatty-acids in general are superior to other metabolic fuels because of their ATP (energy) density …" [emphasis added]

ATP is Produced in the muscles, not taken up from some "Supply".

"Fatty acids are important sources of fuel because, when metabolized, they yield large quantities of ATP."

The precursor to ATP is glucose, regardless of it source.

"Now that we can assume short- and medium-chain fatty acids are the ideal energy source for us (hiking or not, imo)…"

If it works for you, good. But for most, Fats and high activity levels don't go together well. On the other hand, Carbs are readily digested (to glucose) at very high activity levels.

"Dietary carbohydrates (sugar) stimulate the release of insulin …"

Again, not true for high levels of activity. The insulin response is Suppressed at these times.

Pseudo-science at its worst, IMHO.

Katherine . BPL Member
PostedAug 24, 2014 at 1:21 pm

I think the OP would be best served by simply bringing a broader range of foods and seeing what works for him.

What do you crave? What makes you sluggish? Pay attention to what you feel you need and eat that then (if you brought it, hopefully).

Personally I was wishing for more yogurt covered preztels on my last trip. And could have done with fewer larabars.

PostedAug 24, 2014 at 7:36 pm

^^^^^
+1 You are so right! Whenever I have a particular craving for a specific food I pay attention and analyze what my brain is telling me. I find this to be especially true when I am active and usually have an assortment of food to meet a specific need….except for a cheeseburger, fries, and shake to which I fulfill after the trip is over.

PostedAug 24, 2014 at 10:02 pm

I have said it so many times, and it is nearly always true:

Take what you like to eat. You can take the healthiest foods known to the Earth, but if you can't get yourself to eat them, it is dead weight.

Take a wide variety of food, something from every category.

And for the love of all that is right, Spirulina? OMG, that stuff is so gross and I'll eat most anything. Stupid hippys back in the early 80's forcing me to drink it in "milkshakes". That should have been child abuse. Just saying.

Bill Segraves BPL Member
PostedAug 26, 2014 at 5:25 am

"> Fatty acids are important sources of fuel because, when metabolized, they
> yield large quantities of ATP."

"The precursor to ATP is glucose, regardless of it source."



Unless that source is fatty acids, which are broken down to drive production of ATP without going through glucose as an intermediate.

Bill S.

PostedSep 14, 2014 at 3:41 pm

These have been mentioned but bear repeating.

1. Buy the book "Freezer Bag Cooking" for great DIY meals and desserts.

2. Get a small dehydrator
> make spaghetti sauce "leather" for later rehydration. (Put in ZipLoc, freeze, crumble into flakes and store in fridge.)
>make fruit leather
>dehydrate veggies and fruits
>dry thin strips of marinated meat into jerky (Use an oven at 250 F. as well. Prop door open 1/2"

Ian BPL Member
PostedSep 15, 2014 at 4:34 am

"Take what you like to eat. You can take the healthiest foods known to the Earth, but if you can't get yourself to eat them, it is dead weight."

Truer words never spoken.

Not that what I was eating was "healthy" (and probably the exact opposite) but I brought a bunch of calorie dense pre packaged crap on the Wonderland. My total kcal per oz average was roughly 115; not great but not bad. By the fourth day, I was literally vomiting at the sight and texture of the food I brought and couldn't force some of it down. We never climbed above 7000' so altitude was not a factor.

10 miles with another 5+ to go combined with 4500' of climbing on 500 kcal really sucks. I now know what it must be like to die of thirst when surrounded by salt water as there was plenty of food in my pack but I just couldn't eat it. Four+ lbs of dead weight in un consumable energy.

Never again will I worry about kcal per oz. It's much more important imo to find what works (read palatable in the field) and is sustainable day after day.

PostedSep 15, 2014 at 3:43 pm

To avoid leaking the key is in the pouring output. Oil has this tendency to slide film-like along anything it comes in contact with. To avoid this to happen over the threads and eventually over the sides of the bottle, the output must have a recessed lip (smaller diameter than the one holding the threads) with a way down into the bottle. The oil that inevitable slides over the outside of the inner lip finds its way in and never (with a bit of careful handling) over the threads.

Kattt BPL Member
PostedSep 15, 2014 at 3:55 pm

Great tip on the olive oil Inaki. Thanks!

PostedSep 16, 2014 at 11:22 am

funny, on recent backpack ran into thru-hikers consuming shots of olive oil. Used to be a fan–added to hot meals–but couldn't drink straight. My body said, though, "I'll have another dollop of butter, please, now that tortillas are gone." I listened. (Clarified; milk solids removed so no spoilage. Ghee. "Parafied.") While Ancel Keyes, Robert Lustig and Gary Taubes keep working out the dietary fat thing, I'll stick with my body…on the trail anyway. I also love schmaltz–chicken fat–on torts but don't usually plan enough ahead. Leaving the stove behind this time, I struggled a bit over carb-base for evening meals. Eliminated were couscous, ramen, and minute rice. Luckily, the others shone: crushed Fritos and Hawaiian Potato Chips. Not a crumb packed out.

Turn away in a moment if you don't like scatology as an insight to what your body says…autonomically. No. 1 body voice is what you pack out. I've never packed out a tortilla or a salami slice. No. 2 voice, is what your body discards (turn away now). Examining my own trail scat as studiously as the trail mammals', I see nuts get thrown away wholesale. Nut butter is undetectible. I also, sadly, see colonies of craved food–flour tortillas in particular. You brought it, you chew it so you can use it. If you're too craven to chew for extraction, slow down or swap in something you don't gulp. It's what I'm telling myself, anyway.

Valerie E BPL Member
PostedSep 16, 2014 at 5:34 pm

>> It's much more important imo to find what works (read palatable in the field) and is sustainable day after day.

I agree with Ian's statement, above. We recently did the JMT, and what worked best for me in the end was: (a) don't worry about nutrition, cal/oz, etc. on a 2-3 week trip — just go for what you like and will actually eat; and (b) include a lot of variety, because it's amazing how by day 4 you can become sick of a food that you really enjoyed on days 1 & 2.

Of course, if you're thru-hiking a long trail (for months), you'll need to be concerned with nutrition (or suffer the consequences), but for a week or two, just spoil yourself!

Viewing 20 posts - 51 through 70 (of 70 total)
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