EXTREMELY disappointed with Garmin Customer Service….. DON’T update firmware

Depending on where you bought it, you might find the store that sold it will back it up. REI almost certainly would, as an example.

"Being that the problem is clearly software based, It is unacceptable they refuse to remedy the situation. "

It has not been established that the failure is software based. That is only your assumption.

I've had Garmins do weird things like that, and I started to make similar assumptions. Then I found the true cause, like user error.

For the record, I had one Garmin failure that was unrecoverable. I sent it back to them and they replaced it.

–B.G.–

I don't think it's an assumption that when a GPS is operating fine, then you do a firmware update and it no longer works, that it's a software issue. That's kind of a no-brainer.

I had a similar issue with my Delorme PN-20 back in the day, fortunately Delorme included an option to restore the unit to factory settings which is what I did and just left it that way. I'm very careful about doing firmware updates now and generally wait to see if other people report bugs and let those get worked out first.

This seems rather common place….. firmware update doesn't take… Garmin logo appears than fades and device shuts off. It will power on in mass storage mode, so hardware is fine. I can manually add/remove software, but it just won't take. They did not have backdated firmware to install. I was able to load a 5.30 software but without it fully installing so to speak, it would not read maps, or detect USB connection. It is 100% firmware.

I wouldn't bring it up if I wasn't sure. Device has been used 3 times. Never dropped, never wet.

This issue has nothing to do with a gps, firmware upgrades always carry the risk of failure, it can be almost anything, assuming causes is literally just inventing them, the range is so wide that there is simply no way you can know. Here's a small list:

connection drops for a millisecond, could be many causes, usb cable defective, poorly seated, etc, wifi connection, if used, fails or distorts, whatever.

firmware operating system bug, or a battery state vs firmware upgrade issue, so many things there it's almost impossible to ever know.

hardware issue, this can be a wide range of things, could be a bad cell in the flash memory that the firmware is stored in, and the new version occupies that space, and presto, brick.

Now, if Garmin explicitly tells you to upgrade firmware, they really should always replace bricked units, but that tends to get kind of expensive.

The general computer world policy on firmware upgrades is to do them if you have an issue that the new firmware resolves, and don't do them if you don't. The same goes for computer BIOS upgrades, which is also a form of firmware, that is also very prone to failure.

Every time I do a firmware upgrade I consider it a very high risk action, and am always prepared for it to fail. It would be nice if low end consumer trinkets like a gps could be working at military grades of reliability, but they don't, otherwise they'd cost as much as military grade electronics, which are tested for probably, I'm guessing, 100x better reliability in the chips and circuits.

When I tell a client that I am going to do something with their firmware, I always tell them that there is a significant statistical risk of failure, that may or may not be covered by the warranty, or that warranty may or may not be honored, it's highly variable.

My favorite case of upgrade failure was on an IBM / Lenovo laptop, I used the windows firmware upgrade tool, turned out it had a huge bug, that consistently made the bios upgrades fail, thus bricking your shiny new laptop. Known issue, not resolved, no support from company, that's how it goes. Turned out the only reliable way to do it was using a live cd or usb powered upgrade. And that's not a trinket, but its' still dead and the company offers no support or replacement when their firmware tool fails.

Just how things go in the computer world, it's a low margin low cost production process, no matter what their advertising might try to make you believe, and the less you pay for something, the less they spend on the hardware and software. Knowing the realities of low end hardware and software is why I would never even dream of relying on a gps in the backcountry.

For the technically inclined, 'firmware' refers to a package containing the device operating system, and the software and user tools that runs on that operating system. A firmware upgrade literally reflashes the memory that firmware lives on, which means there is this moment when the firmware has replaced itself, and all of the normal processes are not working, it's a very short moment, but it is there, and if anything goes wrong in that moment, or in the process leading up to that moment, bang, brick. All devices that use firmware have this reality, and this problem has always existed, it's just better understood in communities that do a lot of stuff with firmware, the basic notion is that what is controlling it is replacing itself, and at a certain point, any error at all can destroy the replacement process, and because the device is so simplistic at that level, there is no way for you to access it unless you have access to extremely specialized tools, and even then it tends to fail.

“The general computer world policy on firmware upgrades is to do them if you have an issue that the new firmware resolves, and don’t do them if you don’t.”

In other words: if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Andrew: I’m guessing that you are ‘dallasak’ and have read the instructions here

If you want to go back to 5.2 I have the gupdate.gcd file for that, pm me if you want it.

My Garmin 60CSx died – wouldn't boot – pised me off a little because I took it on a trip but it wouldn't capture tracks of the trip.

Garmin told me how to re-load low level software, then high level software, it's worked ever since.

The battery cover broke. There's a flimsy plastic clip that broke. They wanted $30 for a new one which I thought was BS. I contructed a little metal piece and epoxied it on which has worked good for quite a while.

Now the front buttons are wearing out but it still works – I've used it a lot so I figure that's normal wear-out.

I think maybe DeLorme has a little better customer service based on stories I've heard, and DeLorme units are just as good – I might get one of those next time.

Maybe Garmin has focused more on a bigger market – GPSes for automobiles.

I'm actually not Dallasak. That must be someone else that had this issue……

So I called back garmin again today. Apparently this has become widespread enough (in the past few days) that they are now offering to replace bricked Dakota's regardless of warranty status….

That said, I am pretty comfortable working with computers/electronics so:

I was able to be polite but firm enough to a supervisor that they reluctantly released a back dated OS. They released this to me with a windows based exe "updater" program. By holding the power button down and manually deleting much of what was on the bricked device (as they said they would warranty it, I wasn't as reluctant to experiment).

after 4-5 tries and clicking the updater before the device was fully into mass storage mode and could be taken over by other aspects of windows, I was able to get it to reload the software. I then was able to update to the newest firmware version.

After speaking with the garmin rep again to let them know how it was resolved, they more or less told me that the mac webupdater and dakota 20 especially has had enough problems they extended the service without warranty. (IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, DO FIRMWARE UPDATE ON A PC).

I'm VERY pleased the device is working again, but more so pleased they offered to fix the situation. I have a perfectly good unit that is new. No need for them to replace it. But comforting that they finally came around.

This to me is always the true test of a company, if they support their products when they fail, so good to see garmin is doing that. Some do, some don't, and you never know until you get a failure.