Sleep system idea

To save weight and complexity, you need to leave the idea of separate sleep clothing at home in the closet.

I wouldn't be using a separate set of silk base layers would wear the synthetic base layers I use anyway. Likewise with the down items— I would wear synthetic stuff, but the concept is the same. Rather than the silk liner, I would opt for a breathable nylon bivy bag with DWR like Pertex, which would basically be a windshirt to sleep in. I think the silk liner would be too porous to add much in the way of heat retention. I don't see any difference in warmth between such a system and a light down bag, and you get the multiple use of the insulating clothing as *clothing*. It should work fine for most summer trips where something like a one pound down bag might be used.

I think that a good Spartan sleep system should plan on including insulated clothing to extend the range of the bag. It makes no sense weight wise to have warm clothing parked next to your sleeping bag or quilt unless it is much warmer than planned.

I include my mid-layer stuff as part of my sleep system in judging temperature range. I can opt out if it is really warm, use them if it is cooler, and add my puffy insulation if it gets colder than expected.

I do not intend to exclude any of that clothing from hiking.
I just hardly ever get cold while out on the trail (in fact quite the opposite even in winter).
So, I would have all that stuff anyway. At least theoretically, as I do not own most of it now.

Thanks for the insight.

I would say either try that out in your back yard (where fleeing indoors is an option) or take a regular sleeping bag and try your system without it…but have the bag there if needed. I'm assuming, of course, that it actually gets somewhat cold where you live.

I overheat badly when hiking, but I freeze my hind end off at night. So just because you're the guy that wears shorts when hiking doesn't mean you are also the guy that can get by with a minimalist sleep system. I'd experiment with it in similar conditions as what you expect to encounter and see if it works.

You are the best judge of when you need more or less insulation.
It revolves around your metabolism when you are moving, vs when you are not.
Generally, a person needs significantly more insulation to keep warm when sleeping, than when hiking or even just sitting in camp.

So, you have to determine what your body needs.
There really is no "right" or "wrong" in this, unless you make a drastic error and freeze to death. Mostly if you are wrong, you'll know it before you get thru the night.
Ultimately, if you have enough insulation for sleeping, it really doesn't matter if that insulation is in the form of a sleeping bag or a set of down clothes.
Just have enough of it, or you'll be miserable.

And you NEED a sufficiently warm R-value for your sleeping pad, regardless of what kind of insulating bag or clothes you have. The cold ground will suck the heat out of you, and your down insulation is mostly ineffective when it's crushed flat underneath you and has no loft.

*If* you're carrying all that clothing anyway, this might make sense, but I'd tend to be wondering why all the clothing if you're typically plenty warm during the day. I used to dual-purpose much of my clothing as sleepwear, but after noticing that I was rarely cold during the day, I now don't have much left to dual-purpose.

Best,

Bill S.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I live in NY, so it does get cold.

Seems like there is a general: "this is too light", response. I slept out a couple of nights this summer with nothing but an old-pad and a t-shirt inside my tent. One night I did get a little cold and ended up pulling the t-shirt over my legs. So I'll certianly take this advice to heart.

Going out to the Catskills at the end of September, which might be a good transition/test time. I think I will follow the advice to bring this (or any provisional system) and always a standard system as a backup.

Again. Thanks a ton. Take care.

Are you saving any weight?

If you are generally warm the down booties, down pants and sleeping bag liner are all items that you wouldn't need if you have a conventional sleeping bag. So a 16 oz or lighter quilt or sleeping bag is likely lighter for the same warmth.

Unless you are using these items outside of sleeping ours then it will be heavier than the equivalent warmth bag. Basically you end up carrying a lot more shell material relative to the down material so having one shell (a sleeping bag) is more efficient than having multiple shels.

Not a bad idea. But, I believe that it has been tried with only limited results. Try looking up Elephants foot sleeping bag on line.

1) Sweat is always a problem. If you are not exerting yourself, you may still sweat. Generally more oils, but it still happens. This is called insensible perspiration. Look it up. It helps to keep you skin softer so it doesnt get dry and crack like a piece of glass. You can get cold, but still you need to sweat. Your feet are a good example.
2) Get hiking clothing off (It helps to defeat this.) Socks are a good example. they can dry out over an hour or so.
3) Smell, not that smelly and hiking are exclusive of each other.
4) Night time temps are typically lower than day time temps, true in NY. You will need a sleeping bag to offset this.
5) Sleeping metabolism is lower that waking metabolism. You are comfortable at around a 70-75 degree temp standing still. For hiking, a 40F degree temp is good. for sleeping, an 80F degree temp is good. However you maintain this is OK.
6) I think you will find that you will be OK at night, but too warm while hiking. Removing the jacket and pants will help. Soo, what do they weigh? What does a similar weight of sleeping bag give you in temperature protection? Like a glove or a mitten, I think you will find that a good sleeping bag will be warmer for the weight.

That said, I do similar by suplimenting my 40F bag in late September with a down jacket and mid weight merrino wool long johns. This will easily take me down to about freezing. In the morning, and at night, I wear the jacket around camp, doing chores. So, it isn't strictly sleep gear. Once I start hiking, it is in my pack, though. Only two or three times have I needed it during the day while I was hiking (I spend about 30-60 nights out per year and have for the past ~30 years. Spotty before that…somtimes down to 20 nights.) About 1100 or earlier, I shed the long johns, if possible. September and October are my favorite months to be out.

But, I really don't know how well you adjust to heat differences over the course of a day. You could be fine with that system. I used to be that way. I got the light bag and stuff anticipating quick adjustment. As I got older, I lost a lot of that and got the jacket. Diabetes sure don't help. I have a warmer bag, but I rarely use it.

The elephant foot seems like a great way to cut down on weight. Thanks. And thanks for the detailed repsonse.

I now think I understand the issue with the idea: no matter the temperature of the hike, the temperature of the sleep (or our sensitivity to it) will always be more (or less, you get my meaning, I hope).

I was trying to cut down on wieght and pack size by using a series of small, light-wieght balls (balled up jackets and pants, et al) rather than a single large sack for the bag. Further I thought that I could get multi-use out of them (either wearing on the trail, or at night, or as pillows). But I now see that it would not work out so well. And it is, of course, dangerous to play around with sleep systems (or at least can be very uncomfortable).

Anyway, that's why I posted here. Thanks so much for helping. Take care.