20 degree wet weather clothing, again?

There are a couple of issues with Wilson's article, the most important of which is that we now know that loft is not directly coordinated with warmth (in either down or synthetics).

David, is that from the research that Nisely did?

Nisley's stuff from a few years ago, Jerry's recent article, and the data from Reitveld's down jacket SOTMR all suggest that with down loft does not perfectly correlate with warmth. The details seem to be very much up for grabs.

As for synthetics, the equivalent weights of Climashield and Primaloft have rather different lofts, but fairly comparable insulative values (setting aside the issue of degradation over time, and how both respond).

I am enjoying this conversation.

I remember reading that article

They're missing something important – it takes heat to evaporate the water

This reduces the temperature difference across the insulation – equivalent to lowering the R value – even if the loft is unaffected

Until you measure temperatures, you have an incomplete story

We're back to there's no good data on this, just people's experiences, which is good, but not very scientific

"didnt skurka use a synth quilt, and mr jordan as well"

No to the first. Yes to the second

Ahem, from Skurka's gearlists:

* Alaska-Yulon trek: a down bag for winter (Golite Adrenaline) but a MLD Spirit quilt for spring/summer/fall (Climashield Apex)
* Alaska Four Range trek: BPL UL180 (synthetic)
* Hayduke Trail & Grand Canyon: Golite Ultra-20 quilt (down)
* Iceland Traverse: BPL UL180 quilt
* SHR: BPL UL180 quilt (but commented that down would be better for that locale)
* UL in Nation's Icebox: Golite Feather 20 bag (down??)

A mixture of insulations but certainly not avoiding synthetics

We're back to there's no good data on this, just people's experiences, which is good, but not very scientific

i dont think there will ever be very good data … it all depends … for example there was a trip report where Mr Linn wrote an article for BPL where his down got saturated on the last part of the PCT due to there basically being no sun to dry out his down bag … not life threatening, but probably inconvenient …

my opinion is that it all depends on where you are, what you are doing and how certain you are of things not going wrong or you screewing up …

i own and use synth and down jackets, so whatever works best for me … or both sometimes ;)