FNH Five Seven 1.6lb gun

just checked on the Henry survival rifle; it's listed as 3.5 lbs, not 2.5… lists for $350 ($100 / lb).

Seems a little heavy for backpacking light.

Looks interesting for carrying in a car/truck/plane/boat.

As far as I know, the Kel Tec p32is the lightest in its class. I have one and it is small.

http://www.campsaver.com/ul-titanium-stove?trk_msg=0URHUMKI8RKK91434EF643H2TG&trk_contact=MC0OIHIMJRMDGBGJI63THI67SK&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fwww.campsaver.com%2ful-titanium-stove&utm_campaign=Mar-14

Old thread but what the hay! The Henry AR-7 also has a spotty track record but I'd still like to buy one. My son and I are planning on converting his Cricket to a pack rifle once we acquire a PRK Skeletonized Stock. It advertises that the rifle will hit the 19oz mark with the conversion. Hopefully they will start selling them again as they've been out of stock (pun intended) for a while.

I’m ok with this lightweight modified close range shirt pocket carry.

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Making one of those is technically illegal (there are rules about "manufacturing" firearms). Range and stopping power is so bad here I think you'd have a better chance with mace.
I wish there was a "pocket rocket" that could fit in a hikers pocket and stop any potential threat (human, Mtn. Lion, bear) but I haven't seen it yet. The two lightest options that could reliably stop most threats would be a 5 shot .357 magnum (13 oz) or bear spray (9-13oz). Neither is really pocket sized. There is a new pocket sized 9mm out there called the Diamondback that would fit in a cargo pocket nicely. Kinda small for a black bear but maybe with +P ammo (safe but not recommended as its hard on such a light weapon).

I had given some thought to the Heiser Double Tap 45acp. It weighs in at 12oz. I thought it might make a good choice for self defence as a back up to pepper spray. Having spent most of my career working in big bear country, I am seldom without pepper spray. I still carry it twice a day on my fanny pack when walking my dogs…for other dogs. The Double tap only has two cartridges, but in pinch you should be able to make do…slow em' down with pepper spray before capping them with the double tap, eh? The 45acp is a decent round for stopping or deterring most critters at close range. Wouldn't work on bears or moose, but most critters, dogs, and people it should get the job done. Having spent most my career around the continental divide I don't worry too much about kooks, but when I think of hiking the AT or PCT I think kooks just might abound?

There has always been a debate between the large caliber/slow round and the smaller caliber/ fast round. There is the Marshall and Sanow school, of which I loosely belong, that finds a correlation between the muzzle velocity of a round and its effectiveness is more important then the grain weight. M&S concluded, for example, that a 125 grain .357 round traveling at about 1450 fps was much more effective then, say, a 230 grain .45 cal round traveling at about 900 fps. It is a matter of how many foot pounds of energy a bullet of a certain weight traveling at a certain speed will generate when it impacts. Now M&S had a loose grasp of science and statistics, but the idea that muzzle energy matters more then the grain weight or caliber makes sense to me. Of course there is a point of diminishing return when going too light, and there is the practicality of the amount of recoil in a handgun a shooter can manage. The 5.56mm/.223 round, at only 55 grains, but with a muzzle velocity of over 3000 fps, is very effective, both in the foot pounds of energy on impact and the wound channel that it generates. The 5.7mm round is using that basic formula: A relatively light round traveling at a high speed will be as, or more effective, then a slower, heavier round. I have yet to shoot a 5.7, but I hear the recoil is very light and the round is super accurate. There will always be those folks, often older men in hats, who say the size of the bullet is all that matters. Looking at the havoc smaller, lighter, high velocity rounds cause, I am not so sure they are right.

It looks like the modern AR-7 / Survival Rifle has gotten fat. Maybe these newer, Henry versions are using an all-steel barrel instead of the steel-lined aluminum on all the 2.5# units out there (?). I think they come with more magazines that also fit in the stock, so maybe it's a combination of factors.

Either way, these aren't designed for "defense", but rather bird and varmint hunting for survival purposes. With some readily-available knowledge (wahoo, internet!) and some bench & range time, the AR-7 can be nicely accurized for its purpose. Of course, it's not going to be a bench shooter, nor a dialy-driver like the 10/22 TD can be, but it floats…

I think the 14-ounce, beryllium Desert Eagle .50 is the one y'all want. Hang on tight!

I'm don't understand what people plan on "surviving" by carrying something like an AR-7.

If you're not climbing out of a downed aircraft, wrecked ship, or tangled parachute with one of these, isn't it just hunting? For which there are much better rifles for small game?

Seems like a piece of gear that gets sold primarily for entertaining man vs. nature Hollywoodesque fantasies of being suddenly and inexplicably stranded in the wild with no food or supplies.

I carry a duo-mid/parachute in a harness i wear 24/7, just in case the opportunity to survive being tangled in it presents itself. Might as well bring a weapon that enhances the thrill of surviving the situation too.

Personally rifles as a survival tool don't make much sense except maybe for an Alaskan bush pilot. Even then I think a stove and a couple Mtn. House Meals might be better. Really how long are you likely to be stranded?

Guns for hunting/self defense are a different matter. Unfortunately the requirements tend to be somewhat different. Shooting grouse with a 44 magnum seems kind impractical to me.

Here's my dream gun if anyone wants to make it.
-snubnosed revolver in .357
-4 shot cylinder so its smaller fits in my pocket
-Removable titanium stock so I can shoot it almost as accurately as a rifle (you need a SBR stamp for this).

I'd carry this like 4 shot pocket rocket in my hiking pants cargo pocket loaded with cast .357 loads. It would have plenty of power for anything smaller then a grizzly. If I wanted to shoot a grouse I'd attach the removable stock and load very light 38 Special rounds. This idea would give me a reasonably effective self defense system light and small enough that I'd actually carry it. Add a couple extra ounces for ammo and a ti stock and I could take supplement my diet with small game occasionally.

The AR-7 is a military survival rifle for pilots stuck behind enemy lines.
The terms "survival rifle" and "pack rifle" are often interchangeable. They are just lightweight hunting tools that you can pack around.

"The AR-7 is a military survival rifle for pilots stuck behind enemy lines"

Yeah I never understood how shooting behind enemy lines was a great idea. However I guess in Siberia starving might actually be a bigger risk then getting caught.

Yeah, but maybe they issued them with silencers?

Funny you should mention that silencers. I just shot a silenced .22 a friend has. With subsonic ammo his .22 was quieter then a Red Rider BB gun. Funny thing is we regulate silencers. Other countries encourage them because they make shooting quieter for any neighbors.

I don't have one, but interesting for the weight and such.

22 magnum, the cheaper ammo equivalent of the 5.7.

13.3 ounces empty,

30 round capacity full mag adds 6 ounces

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/