SMD Skyscape Scout leaking

Natasha
You are not alone…
I have done in the last 10 years or so many dozens of shelters and from several brands, yet I had something similar to you happening a couple of weeks ago.
I finished doing a shelter as it was starting do drizzle on and off with wind in between. A few hours later the shelter was dry but it rained hard during the night.
Having a look at the floor in the morning I found several drops on it.
A bit later it had stopped raining so I took another good look and realised that all those drops came from 4 bits of Velcro sticking out from the fly.
Like this one :

Initially it looked like the fly had failed but because the drops were on a straight line I realised that the wind caused that.
Now I wonder how often that has happened to others that have reported the fabric leaking.
So two suggestions :
1)I prefer to use 100% silicone and diluting it to an olive oil type consistency so that the silicone penetrates the stitching not just coats them.
2) make sure you do the base of those ribbons/elastic/Velcro bits that are attached to the fly and better still do them both sides.
BTW, having re done the base of those Velcro bits the next day I did an extensive hose test, it passed …
Franco

Just remembered
The Scout has a polyester fly so ignore the bits about diluting silicone…
(with polyester you do need to use a urethane type sealant like Seam Grip)

Years ago I had a bad experience with Kenyon recoat 3 it was water based and when packed away wet or wet to long it turned back to its origional form when applyed, kinda like elmers glue. It was a horrible product and I got a new tent out of them as there was no way known to clean it off. What did SMD reccomend seam sealing with? I bet if you soaked the tent a full day then washed it on gentle or by hand all that seam sealer would be gone and you could start over

I'm no chemist, so forgive me for asking this… but could it have something to do with using a urethane sealant (like Seam Seal 3) instead of a silicone sealant (like Sil Net)?

OK, scratch that. SMD does recommend a urethane-based sealant for it's polyester shelters: http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/faq/seam-sealing.html

So I'm a bit new to the world of lightweight backpacking and the Scout I bought last summer was the first tent I've seam sealed myself. I'll say that I thought I followed instructions carefully and thought I did a pretty good job…and then I ran a sprinkler over my tent for a while in the backyard one day to check my work. Yeah, I didn't quite get a couple spots. So I re-did those areas and re-did the test. Bam, totally sealed and hasn't failed since. I'd suggest just selectively re-sealing.

The scout model is PU coated Polyester, so you need a Urethane based sealer. I do not care for water based sealers like the one you used because over a relatively short period of time it will fail and start peeling. I prefer McNett Seam Grip for PU coated tents, it takes more patience and time to seal but the seal should last for years. The particular issue you are having with the skyscape is that the elastic tie outs are slightly exposed where it is sandwiched between the pieces of fabric meet. This allows water to be wicked up into the elastic from the outside of the fly into your tent resulting in what you described. The solution is to seam seal the elastic where it enters the seam so that the material no longer is able to draw water thru it.

Thank you all for your comments. I am prepared to re-seal the tent and will definitely focus more on the elastic areas, sealing them from both sides. I do think the elastic got wet and the water got pulled in through the seam and started to drip.

I will look into the SeamGrip stuff. I guess I didn't realize they were very different products in terms of longevity. I had purchased the Kenyon stuff as it was available at my local store and seemed to have good reviews online. I am certainly in no rush to seal it again and if the McNet stuff takes longer, then so be it. I don't want another leak incident, especially in colder weather.

I emailed the Kenyon company about my issue. My concern is seam sealing over the existing stuff. It won't do my any good to seam seal with the SeamGrip stuff if the first layer is compromised in some way

The old sealer needs to be scrubbed off with warm water and a soft scrub pad before it is replaced, be forewarned alcohol or harsh chemicals can eat thru the polyurethane coating of the tent. In my experience it is much easier to remove the old sealer once it starts peeling off after about a season of use.

Heard from Kenyon about the seam sealer. Apparently it requires application to the coated side of the fabric to create a good seal. Due to low adhesion, rain will wash off the sealer in due time. I was advised to seal from the inside if I can. I was told I can remove the sealer on the outside with warm water, soap, and a scrub pad.

Having to remove this sealer and then reapply a different brand it not exactly what I was hoping I would have to do. I'm not really crazy about submerging my Scout in the bathtub to scrub away at all the seams. They claim McNett Seam Grip works the same way and I'm going to have the same problem.

Should I just seam seal the inside with SeamGrip and just wait for the Kenyon stuff to wash/flake off the outside? Will this be effective?

"Should I just seam seal the inside with SeamGrip and just wait for the Kenyon stuff to wash/flake off the outside? Will this be effective?"

You cannot effectively seal the skyscape from the inside due to the mesh being sewn to the fly (this is why it is not factory taped according to Ron @ SMD). Also Seam Grip is very different than what you are using, it is not water based. McNett's Seam Sure is water based and may be what the company was trying to tell you is the same stuff.

They claim McNett Seam Grip works the same way
No , not true at all. I have done many tents with that( polyester/Gore Tex and Epic) , it does not dissolve in water and yes you do apply it on the outside.
Before you immerse the tent in bathwater just try to wipe the seam down with a cloth saturated in warm water (a few times) , you may also use an old toothbrush to gently scrub that stuff out.

See:
http://www.mcnett-outdoor.com/Repair-Guide/Tents/Seam-Sealing/673.aspx
There is a page there that shows you how to clean the seams before application but I can't find it now…
Franco

Thanks for suggestions and comments. I guess I was not aware how different the Kenyon product is from the McNett Seam Grip. Live and learn I guess.

I tried Franco's suggestion of using a wet cloth and toothbrush. That didn't appear to work to remove the seam sealer from the polyester fabric but did appear to remove it from the threads. I was able to remove excess sealer in some places leaving a very fine layer. After wiping with the wet cloth I was able to confirm where my leaks came from. The loops appeared to pull the water inside like I had guessed.

I can try an area tonight with rubbing alcohol and see if that helps to remove the sealer. I may just have to use the Seam Grip over the Kenyon stuff and hope it seals in the areas the Kenyon stuff didn't touch.

Have you talked to Ron at six moons. If it was me after my experience with the kenyon product I would try to soak a area for many hours to soften the product then try wiping or scrubbing away

As Franco sez, coating BOTH sides of sewn on attatchments with seam sealer of a penetrating consistency is the only answer. Wish I'd have known that in the spring of 2011. Don't ask…

No, I should send him an email and get his thoughts on the matter. This is turning out to be way more of a mess than I thought it was going to be. Had I known that Seam Grip was the only option to adequately seal the tent, I would have used that. Oh well..

That is my plan the next time to come at both sides of loops with seam sealer. Hopefully attacking loops from both sides will create a good enough seal to stop water was being pulled into the tent.

>> Have you talked to Ron at six moons. If it was me after my experience with the kenyon product I would try to soak a area for many hours to soften the product then try wiping or scrubbing away <<

First off, I have responded to Natasha in a separate email about my thoughts. However, I did want to comment publicly about this specific post.

My standing rule for most discussions resolving around gear is to "Never say Never". However, this is one instance I'm willing to break that rule.

Never soak a polyurethane coated tent in soapy water for hours! I repeat Never, Never, Never.

The only exception is if you're planning on completely re-coating all of the tent with a new coat of sealer. The warm soapy water will soften up the coating allowing it flake off in small pieces. It may take a few repeats but, you can remove all of the old coating. I've done this several times in the past.

Doing this on a new tent will just ruin the tent, as no one re-coats tents anymore.

Ron

Thank you for posting Ron. I am glad that I had not gone further than just wetting the seams. Re-sealing the entire tent is a nightmare that I am glad that I do no have to endure. I am glad I'm not the only one who was unaware of not soaking tents in soapy water. :-/

I'll go ahead and re-seal with Seam Grip and do a hose test. I love the tent and can't wait to get back out there again. If all goes well, I will be nice and dry and I this will just be a funny story to tell down the road.