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Of Mids and Things – A Duckfoot’s Lament.

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PostedAug 18, 2012 at 6:27 pm

This post is intended for those with quite narrow heels, and wider than average forefeet – like a duck. After years of trying to shoe duckfeet, I want to share some of the trials and tribulations, and occasional successes.

It all began with much pain and suffering in store bought boots, until a pair of Limmer boots was custom made by elders of the Limmer tribe for less than one tenth of what their boots cost today. The boots weighed five pounds the pair, kept my feet dry 95% of the time, and were so comfortable, they doubled as camp shoes. So much for those who insist that one pound on the feet equals (pick a number between 1 and 10) pounds on the back.

After over ten years, and numerous resolings and repairs, the Limmers shrunk just enough to be too tight for comfort. All efforts to obtain equally comfortable replacements were unavailing. Store bought boots had become a little softer, but now felt like heavy socks glued to soles – no support whatsoever, except around the ankles, where the makers seemed determined to lock the foot up and throw away the key. All these boots, if not returnable, ended up on the consignment rack of the local gear shop, by the dozens, yielding maybe 10-20 cents on the dollar.

At about this point, a friend recommended Keen Targhees. Lots of room in the forefoot, almost no restriction on ankle movement, and with a good orthotic, they could be cinched up enough to usually keep the heels from sliding sideways in the boot, especially while traversing steep slopes. Despite the size of the heel box, something about the pulley-like band running from behind the heels to the lace hooks in front of ankles made for a snug heel box when sturdier laces were added and laced tightly.

Because the walls of the boot were higher than those of a trail or running shoe, they worked out a lot better for navigating the big muddies of the Northeast, and wet meadows of the Rockies. And the soles were very supple – you could run easily in them – while being quite comfortable and supportive. The weight – about 2.5 lbs the pair, in size 10.5 (US).

But they fell apart, almost before the eyes, and had to be replaced every 6 months or so. On the most recent pair, the edges of the outsole even when new could be peeled away from the uppers with little resistance from whatever glue had been used. It became a ritual to inject urethane glue around the soles to keep water out and prevent total delamination. Even the soles themselves, made up of different pieces of rubber, came apart. I used to reglue them carefully back together. On this summer's trek, I just tore the ends of the loose pieces out. And the mesh separating the leather pieces adorning the upper looked like something from a lingerie shop. Not that Keen is the only one doing this, but not so good in fields of scree, talus and boulders.

This summer, Backpacker magazine had a blurb about a new Vasque mid with a narrow heel and wide forefoot. But it was not so. Cavernous and mushy heel boxes again for the duckfoot.

Most recently, an Oboz mid, called the Yellowstone, seems to have very little ankle restriction, and is well made and rugged. Instead of a pulley strap, the heel box is reinforced with additional strips of leather. And the sole is very supportive, although unlike the Targhee, stiffer than a trail or running shoe. The heel boxes are just a bit too big, but maybe as the boot breaks in, the heels will snug more into the box when the laces are tightened. That was the way the Limmers worked. I can only hope.

The upper is made up of many strips of leather, and even though that leather, like most shoe leather these days, is probably split stuff without much water resistance, at least there is something there to water treat, along with the proprietary waterproof breathable membrane underneath. Unfortunately, all that leather brings the weight of a size 10.5 (US) up to almost three pounds the pair. But that is two pounds lighter than the Limmers were. Progress of a sort, I guess.

If you are also a duckfoot, and like something a little higher than running shoes to wade through the muck and mire, please share your successes and defeats. Maybe some progress can happen here. Thanks.

John Vance BPL Member
PostedAug 18, 2012 at 8:08 pm

I have traveled a similar path, Limmers and alll. I found the Timberland Cadion xcr some 7 or 8 years ago and am wearing out the last of three pairs. Unfortunately they aren't made any more and I have maybe one more season with them. With delicate looking Schoeller fabric uppers that wore well, ultimately it was the soles that wore smooth on granite that did them in.

I hope others chime in with options for duck feet, or as my wife has called them, pizza by the slice feet.

PostedAug 19, 2012 at 8:40 am

Very lightweight trail running shoes by Vivobarefoot and Altra have wider toe box than Keen. These are minimalist shoes. http://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/store-locator/

I developed a bunion and have to wear orthotics and toe spacers (correct toes). I have slender feet but need space in the toes. The only shoes that work for me so far is Vivobarefoot (their Breatho currently); these were recommended by my podiatrist. Vivobarefoot has a hiking shoe but I haven't tried it. Altra is similar but the volume of the toe area is too large for my feet. Altra has better support and nicer hiking shoe.

EMS carries some Vivobarefoot models, but only mail order. There's a nice store in Northampton, MA ('Good for the soles').

PostedAug 19, 2012 at 11:53 am

More room in the toe box than anything else I've tried, but the are zero drop, so they'll probably require an adjustment period if you're used to wearing conventional shoes with drop. I used to love Keens as well, but they don't have any zero drop models…yet. Not sure about the Altra heel fit; my heels are somewhat narrower than average, but not extremely so.

PostedAug 19, 2012 at 4:59 pm

Thanks for the suggestions.
The Timberland Cadion XCR may be available at: http://kitsapsports.com/Products/462-timberland-cadion-mid-xcr.aspx

But I am looking for a true mid that does not restrict ankle movement, but offers more protection from pooled water than a low cut shoe.
Maybe that is the problem, and it is time to switch to a trail shoe with really good custom DIY gaiters.
Another long walk with the Oboz' today, though – they aren't bad.

Kenneth Jacobs BPL Member
PostedAug 19, 2012 at 7:28 pm

For my wide forefoot, I have found happiness in a pair of Merrell Chameleon 4s. Did not expect that from a pair of Merrells since they don't look wide. Found my "hiking size" about one size up from my average street shoe size. As for their durability, I'll have to see. They held up to about 25 miles of rocky, wet, muddy Rocky Mtn. trail thus far and my feet never complained once…yet have not tried them without liner socks for an extended hike (6+ miles) yet.

http://www.zappos.com/merrell-chameleon-4-ventilator-gore-tex

…there is a mid boot version of them too. I have the shoes, stock insoles.

PostedAug 19, 2012 at 8:26 pm

I don't remember what model I have, but my Merrells work for my feet better than any other brand I've tried. I guess I have duck feet because I definitely like the larger toe box.
I also have a high arch and have had issues with Morton's neuroma in the past. I put some Spenco inserts in the Merrell's and I've been good to go. For many, many hard miles.

Karl Gottshalk BPL Member
PostedAug 20, 2012 at 2:31 am

Sound like my feet exactly. I don't wear mids, but I am currently wearing Solomon XR Crossmax shoes that work great for me, so I would try a higher Solomon. My previous Solomon's were the XA Pro 3D Ultra's (?), but these have a much narrower toebox. My heels stay down even with the shoes very loose and no toe cramping whatsoever. YMMV of course.

Karl

Mike M BPL Member
PostedAug 20, 2012 at 7:43 am

for mids I had pretty good luck w/ Merrell Moabs in their wide size, but once I went to trail runners I don't ever see myself going back to mids

Montrail Sabino Trails is my current trail shoe, have been through two pairs (~ 500 miles each), currently on my third pair and and have one in reserve. The toe box is roomy, the heel relatively snug- lightweight and they dry fast.

I'm a little weary of going to a 0 drop shoe as I already deal w/ tight calves and Achilles problems, New Balance offers several of their trail runners in EE and even EEEE- they have some that are traditional drop ~ 10mm, but also some around 4mm

I've also switched to the Superfeet Black insoles over the Greens, this gives a little more room in the toe area

Mike

PostedAug 20, 2012 at 8:25 pm

I have tried a number of Merrells in the mid cut range, and they all were too wide in the heel pocket, with no support there to keep the foot from rolling or sliding. They don't seem to wear very well, either, like the Keens that have much better support.

It seems a lot of the companies, like Salomon and La Sportiva, make trail shoes for narrow heels, but don't carry that over to their mids for some reason. But I'll keep looking a bit longer, before going to the workshop to MYOG (Make Your Own Gaiters). The reason to keep looking is that there is a lot to be said for dry feet. Was just reading again the August 1997 article in Backpacker magazine on waterproofing footwear – they made a strong case for dry feet which IMO has stood the test of time.

PostedAug 21, 2012 at 4:06 am

Have you tried Meindl? I don't know if they're for sale in the US, but they are extremely high quality boots. So far their shoes are the only ones where my heel is properly held in place while there is enough space at the toes.

PostedAug 22, 2012 at 9:25 pm

Yes, Mark. Tried Meindl when Cabellas first started selling them. The off the shelf boots sold by Limmer here in NH are also made by Meindl. But thanks for the suggestion.

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