Zelph’s Fosters Pot and a MYOG Fancee Feest

So here is what you do when you are bored and it is lightening and thundering outside on a Sunday afternoon. You assemble an ultralight weight cook kit naturally.

The bulk of the work was done by Zelph, Bic and MSR with some modifications by myself. I did build the MYOG version of Zelph's Fancee Feest alcohol stove and my windscreen.

Zelph supplies his Fosters and generic can cook pots with snap on plastic lids. In one of his videos he shows how you can snap on of the lids over the cover and zip tie to secure the lid and anything inside.

In actual practice it does work but I encountered some difficulty separating the snap on plastic lid from the cook pot lid. I used an XACTO knife to remove the flat center section from the plastic lid. It still secures the pot lid and is now easier to separate after removal.

Now let's remove the aluminum lid and get a look at what is inside.

Looking inside the 1 cup cook pot you see a dose cup, pot lifter, lighter, stove, a large paper clip and my windscreen.

The pot lifter is hidden under the dose cup.

I started with an MSR full size pot lifter like this one.

I ended up with the one you see here.

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There are still some areas left for lightening. I believe that I can cut down the overall length of my windscreen since it was long enough to go around my 3 cup aluminum pot. I could also remove the "child proof thingy" from my mini Bic lighter. Wouldn't Mike Clelland be proud? I already peeled off the warning label from the back of the lighter. ;-)

Here are the weights.

1 cup pot 15 grams
stove 20 grams
plastic ring 2 grams
aluminum lid 5 grams
dose cup 2 grams
pot lifter 19 grams
mini Bic 11 grams
windscreen and paper clip 16 grams

You'll notice that my cook kit didn't include the fuel and the fuel bottle. I carry my fuel in a small reclaimed Listerine bottle with a child proof safety cap. It is labeled as fuel and graduated in ounces. Filled to top it holds four ounces and weighs 106 grams or 3.7 ounces.

I could lighten it by removing the safety portion of the cap and retaining the screw on cap underneath but I kind of like having the child proof safety cap on there to avoid any "mistakes". ;-?

Party On,

Newton

Newton, if you are really good, you will get the alcohol transport bottle inside.

I've been collecting small plastic bottles for that very reason.

It seems like we ought to be able to do something about the pot lifter.

–B.G.–

Hi Bob,

The fuel bottle inside the 1 cup cook pot would be a neat trick. Getting the fuel bottle inside of the 2 cup Fosters can / cook pot would be easy but I'd gain another 11.34 grams or .4 oz.

Zelph sells a silicone slap band as a pot holder / lifter. I've seen some of these in my local Walgreens.

My fuel bottle is about 4 inches tall which is taller than the 1 cup pot.

Party On,

Newton

"My fuel bottle is about 4 inches tall which is taller than the 1 cup pot."

I assume that your 1 cup pot is about three inches tall. I've been collecting fuel bottles that are three inches or shorter. Some are more round, and some are flatter, but they don't have a great deal of liquid volume.

–B.G.–

Bob,

"I've been collecting fuel bottles that are three inches or shorter. … but they don't have a great deal of liquid volume".

The cool thing about my fuel bottle is that since 15ml will boil my 1 cup of water I can do 8 hot meals out of that single 4 oz bottle.

"I assume that your 1 cup pot is about three inches tall".

My 1 cup cook pot is actually 2 1/2" tall to the top of the plastic ring. The internal volume is further reduced by the fact that the aluminum lid settles into the pot 3/16". The cook pot bottom has what amounts to circular, rolled beads in the bottom. This also reduces the interior height by almost an 1/8". It works out to an interior height of 2 3/16".

I could toss in an Esbit tab but that might only get me 1 maybe 2 boils. Also I don't want to gum up the bottom of my pot.

My windscreen is made of aluminum flashing. I may experiment with an aluminum foil windscreen or cut my aluminum flashing windscreen down a little bit. It is a little longer than necessary.

I chose to go with the 1 cup pot because it had enough internal volume to boil a cup of water without boiling over. The fact that it is shorter than the 2 cup Fosters pot allows it to take up less space in my pack. There is also the weight difference of the larger 2 cup pot.

I may pick up one of those silicone slap bands and weigh it to see if I can substitute it for my 19 gram pot lifter. I just researched it online and a plain silicone slap band bracelet weighs 12 grams. I could save 7 grams using the slap band. This would open up the stove to the fuel bottle nesting inside if I choose to go to the 2 cup pot.

To get the fuel bottle inside I'd have to go with the Fosters 2 cup pot. The net result is I gain 99 grams. I don't think that I could make up for that with modifying the windscreen and losing the safety portion of the fuel bottle cap. The volume of my cook kit would also in effect double, taking up more space in my pack.

Back to the lab and Walgreens I go. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

"My windscreen is made of aluminum flashing. I may experiment with an aluminum foil windscreen or cut my aluminum flashing windscreen down a little bit. It is a little longer than necessary."

I have some interesting bottles, but few less than 2-3/16" tall and still 4 fluid ounces. More are 2 ounces or less.

Your windscreen is made of aluminum flashing. I'm sure that is durable (and maybe brittle), but it is far heavier than what I currently use for Esbit. I start with heavy duty aluminum foil longer than the right length, and then I fold the edges. That makes for a soft edge that won't cut, and it makes for a stronger edge that will hold the desired bend for a night or two, but it doesn't add a great deal of weight. I tried an aluminum+plastic laminate (used in home building) and that got terrible results.

I used to be able to purchase extra heavy duty aluminum foil at a regular grocery store, but it seems like that isn't sold that way cheaply. So, if I need some foil heavier than heavy duty, I use two layers, press it together, and then fold the edge.

If you use a windscreen like this, you might need to use tie-down straps to keep it from disappearing in the overnight breeze.

–B.G.–

Bob,

Take a look at this from Kit Kraft.

http://www.kitkraft.biz/product.php?productid=6971&cat=232&page=1

36 Gauge (.005") thick pure aluminum foil for tooling work, crafting, mold making, and decorating. Comes in a 2.5 foot roll that is 12" wide.

$7.29 Per 2.5 ft roll. Minimum order is $16.00. ;-(

They are in L.A. CA. so you might be able to walk in and pick some up. But that is a long ride from Silicon Valley. L O L

Going hunting in some hobby shops. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

That seems like a nice heavy foil, but we don't know how much it weighs. It says 0.5 pound, but we don't know whether that is the raw weight or the shipping weight. A half-pound of foil seems like a lot to me. I am generally working with a windscreen that weighs 0.3 to 0.5 ounces.

The price seems a little steep, also, considering that I tend to destroy an aluminum windscreen pretty quickly. The titanium one can't be destroyed.

–B.G.–

I just use one of my liner gloves like an oven mitt and it seems to work fine. No pot lifter needed.
I really like the foil zelph sends with his stoves. Its corrugated and easy to use. The oven liners from the grocery store a heavier than aluminum foil but lighter than flashing. You might look at those.

@ Bob,

Ture enough about not knowing the weight. I have and old unused windscreen that came with a Whitebox Solo stove that I may just experiment with for a small weight savings.

@ Ben,

It all depends what time of year I'm hiking. I agree that the liner glove idea would work just fine but I won't be carrying gloves in the summer. I tried a silicone "grabber" like the ones that are used to get a grip on a stubborn jar lid. I found it clumsy and not high in insulative quality. Ouch! ;-)

In general I realized that my "clone" stove has a huge fuel capacity. I can save some weight there by cutting down the height of the fuel cup and the pot stand portion of the stove. The amount of fiberglass wick will also be less.

I looked at one of these silicone pot holders.

The weight is actually more than the silicone slap band that Zelph sells on his site. Its physical size, 1.0" x 2.0" x 1.5", would also take up a good deal of space inside the cook pot when everything is stored away. Using the slap band I might just be able to get everything to fit if I use the 2 cup Fosters. I'd love to see it all fit into the 1 cup generic cook pot but my fuel bottle is simply too tall.

Me thinks that I have become a Gram Weenie! L O L

The experiment continues!

Party On,

Newton

I don't use an aluminum cook pot, nor do I carry any gloves for a summer trip, but I still need to lift the cook pot off the burner. That's why I use a stainless steel wire bail. Steel wire works as long as it is thick enough to be stiff, so it will stand up over the cook pot and lid. That way it doesn't get hot. If the steel wire is really flimsy, it will get into the heat.

–B.G.–

Bob,

I'm going to look into the wire bail option. It sounds like it would be the lightest and least bulky solution. However I'll have to get used to the idea of drilling 2 holes in my brand new Fosters pot. ;-)

As I said the experiment continues.

Here is what I have been up to tonight.

1.) A new smaller and lighter clone of the Fancee Feest stove with a 1 1/3 oz fuel capacity. More often than not I'll be using 15ml of fuel so I could theoretically go smaller yet on the stove but the flame is getting closer to the "ground". I may add a small carefully folded piece of aluminum foil as a reflective surface to the kit. It may increase efficiency and protect the surface the stove is resting on while cooking.

If you look closely at the picture you'll notice fuel seepage ports at the base of the pot stand. They aren't really necessary for the stove operation but I put four of them in the pot stand section. Hey, it's less metal so it has to be lighter right?

Here is a visual of the two different sized stoves.

2.) I trimmed the excess length of the windscreen that used to go around my 3 cup pot.

Notice the 2 paper clips. The large one was replaced by the smaller one in the interest of again saving weight. The pair are pictured for purposes of comparison. Only the small one is to be used. But I have an idea to even do away with the small clip. I'm going to try "setting" the curvature and circumference of the windscreen by baking it in a 425 degree oven for 25 to 30 minutes. I'll do this with some of the large paper clips applied to hold the size until the windscreen takes its set. After it cools I'll remove the clips and I should be able to still coil it tighter to go inside of the cook pot.

Weight Savings

Windscreen and small paper clip now weigh 11 grams. -5 grams

New stove now weighs 12 grams. -8 grams

So far I've removed 13 grams from what I thought was a really light setup.

Tomorrow night the adventure continues. I see a wire bail and a possible 18 – 19 gram further weight reduction through the removal of the pot lifter from the kit. I'm also considering removing the outer "safety" portion of the fuel bottle cap. ;-?

I'm also considering adding some scribed lines inside of the pot stand section of the stove that indicate 15ml and 30ml as fill reference marks. I could remove the dose cup from my kit and have 1 less item to carry and account for. This would make a level surface for cooking a must or I'd have to hold the stove level for filling and then set it down.

If I were to slip the fuel bottle down inside of the stove I'd have to use the 2 cup Fosters due to the height. It would be neat to have it all self contained but the larger pot weighs more. At present I keep my fuel bottle in the rear of my water bottle pocket.

Look closely at lowest portion of the water bottle pockets nearest the compression cordage and you'll see 1 fuel bottle on each side in the lycra mesh water bottle pockets.

My newly lightened windscreen is in the oven being "set" to the proper circumference. It worked the first time I did it. I've got my fingers crossed. L O L

Party On,

Newton

Newton, before you get too deep into the wire bail thing, think about the strength of materials. I used the steel wire in holes cut in a titanium bowl with a strong top lip. You may be using an aluminum can that is not nearly so strong. The steel wire might not play well against the aluminum, and you don't want to have to fool around with reinforcing the aluminum at the hole.

In a related matter, how do you fasten a steel wire in a hole? At first I thought about sticking the wire through the hole and then crimping something on the end. It turns out to be heavy. Then I simply tied a loop knot in the steel wire using long nose pliers. If the wire is stainless, you don't worry about corrosion.

I also had thought about simply hooking the wire end in a hole. But it would be just my luck for it to unhook just when I lifted 20 ounces of boiling water in the pot.

–B.G.–

Hi Bob,

I'll admit that the thought of drilling two small holes in an already thin walled aluminum can did cause me some concern. How to reinforce the two holes was something that was holding me back from breaking out the drill.

The silicone slap band weighs in at 12 grams vs the 19 grams for the "lightened" MSR pot lifter. This would let me lighten the load by another 7 grams or so. I do have a couple of those stretchy silicone wrist bands that a lot of people use for protection from "hot lips" when sipping from a beer can pot. I'll put one on to my 1 cup pot and do a boil test using the new smaller stove and see if it is a viable option. I think it might get pretty warm to hot wrapped around the top of the pot while waiting for the boil.

Party On,

Newton

Lots of clever ideas and love the way things are progressing in weight loss.

Newton’s idea about the lid is so good I’ve decided to include a modified lid as described by Newton in his above photo when ordering a 2 cup flat bottom can. A plain lid weighs 4 grams and the modified one wieghs 1/2 gram.

Like Newton said: (In actual practice it does work but I encountered some difficulty separating the snap on plastic lid from the cook pot lid. I used an XACTO knife to remove the flat center section from the plastic lid. It still secures the pot lid and is now easier to separate after removal.) modifying the lid makes for easier removal of the aluminum pot lid.

I’ll do a video later today of the new modified lid. I’ll identify it as the Newton Lid.

The lid will have a nice clean 3″ diameter hole puched in it’s center.

I’ll be back later to show how I reinforced the holes on a Heineken can so I could use a wire bail.

I used stainless steel eyelets purchased at Joanne Fabrics. The bail can be pushed inside and only the small amount will be kinda wrapped around the top of the can mouth out of the way.

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Here is a youtube video of his ring idea:

Hi Dan,

Thank you so much for your kind references to my humble idea.

My hiker persona is now complete. I have been immortalized in a You Tube video by Zelph.;-)

What is freely given is offered as nothing more than a hiker wishing to help other hikers. We share, we learn and we go lighter and farther carrying less.

Party On,

Newton

Years from now, sitting around the campfire, we'll be able to say "We were there."

I love it when a good idea is recognized.

Jim

Newton, I think you are supposed to add a phrase about standing on the shoulders of giants.

–B.G.–

Hi Bob,

True enough!

I have received many helpful suggestions from the BPL members and guests on this forum.

Aside from saying a simple thank you the way that I express my appreciation is in freely sharing helpful suggestions whenever I can.

BTW after some test burns this evening I have concluded that I may pursue the stainless wire bail idea so as to lighten my cook kit further by eliminating the "lightened" MSR pot lifter.

Thanks to you for suggesting the idea and to Dan for showing me some examples of how he did it and where to source the eyelets.

Thanks again guys,

Party On,

Newton

Next we will be looking for titanium eyelets.

–B.G.–

Keep in mind that the updated total weights in the subject line do not include the 4 ounces of fuel and its bottle that weigh 106 grams / 3.7 ounces.

My idea of using a silicone "sip ring" wristband to pick up the hot pot did not work! The band did not keep the heat away from my fingers and after being stretched into place it was a little on the narrow side for my fat fingers.

I have another variation of an idea that was shown in another earlier thread on BPL using a wire "handle" that binds around the outside of the pot and locks into place. In this particular application the stainless wire bail idea seems lighter, less bulky and somehow more elegant and appealing to me.

The new smaller clone stove and lighter windscreen worked well.

Using the 1 cup generic pot a rolling boil was achieved in 3 minutes and 42 seconds using 10ml of ethanol fuel. Flame out occurred at 4 minutes and 56 seconds. It should be noted that these results were in my garage in 90 degree southeast Louisiana weather. I was using tap water and the temperature of the water was 80 degrees at the start.

I lit the stove from the side aiming my Bic lighter at the fiberglass wick material. The pot was not on the stove at the time but I see no reason why it wouldn't light in the same manner with the pot in place.

After lighting the stove got to full bloom in 4 seconds. I set the pot into place and dropped the windscreen into place around the stove and pot.

It is my goal to choose and implement a bail or wire handle method of lifting the pot. I could then retire my 19 gram MSR pot lifter.

In the future I would like to fill the stove, put the filled pot into place on the stove and then light the stove from the side as described above. I would then drop the windscreen into place and let the stove do its work.

The clone stove starts off with a well sized flame ring in relation to the pot. Later on during the burn the flames do tend to wrap up the sides of the pot. As the water begins to boil the flame starts to calm down and then dies out 1 minute and 14 seconds later. It is constructed from a cut down Vienna sausage can and a section of an aluminum beer bottle. I use 4 layers of 3M fiberglass cloth as the wick. After cutting it to size I fold it longways trapping the long ragged edges inside of the folds.

The stove size is 2 3/8" wide x 1 1/16" tall and the pot diameter is 3 1/4". I am entertaining the thought of building a smaller diameter stove in hopes of concentrating the flame ring under the pot. I really like the Fancee Feest stove design. I need to find some smaller diameter close fitting cans or aluminum bottles to build this smaller and hopefully lighter stove. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

Edit:

"I lit the stove from the side aiming my Bic lighter at the fiberglass wick material. The pot was not on the stove at the time but I see no reason why it wouldn't light in the same manner with the pot in place".

I was doing multiple test burns at the time that I lit the stove from the side. It worked well with an already "warmed up" stove that probably still had some alcohol vapors in the wicking material.

It would not light from the side with the pot on top of the stove from a cold start. It might still work if I dribble some fuel down the side of the "pot stand center ring" onto the wicking material and light it there.

NOTE: I haven't tried this method yet so it has yet to be proven.

BE CAREFUL WHEN EXPERIMENTING WITH ALCOHOL STOVES, ALCOHOL AS A FUEL AND "FIRE" IN GENERAL!

Party On,

Newton

Congratulations. Now you can go to work on trail recipes for crayfish etouffee and beignets.

–B.G.–

Bob,

You've been away from here too long.

Don't forget the Shrimp Creole, Turtle Soup and Alligator Sauce Piquant.

L O L

I'm taking a day / night off from R and D because we're having some friends over tomorrow night.

Stay tuned. There will be further installments and hopefully further weight reductions in my cook kit.

Party On,

Newton